6 ms·

The only reason I have not switched Graphene is because for reasons I do not understand, Graphene OS is very closely tied with Google hardware. I bought a /e/o

by hkgvk 3mo ago

The only reason I have not switched Graphene is because for reasons I do not understand, Graphene OS is very closely tied with Google hardware. I bought a /e/os Fairphone instead.

cromka 3mo ago
Those reasons are explained clearly and openly. Ironically, your /o/OS is way less open than GOS on Google hardware.
- hkgvk 3mo ago
  I just want to be as far from Google as I can. I do not want to buy google hardware. Graphene does not allow me to do that.
  - cromka 3mo ago
    Not only you use Android OS developed by Google, somehow you choose a less open OS distribution, exposing you MORE to Google and their shit, only because you don't want to use their hardware that happens to actually be as open as it gets, including the firmware? Why do you choose to die on that hill? It's ridiculous!
  - palata 3mo ago
    I understand the anti-Google feeling, but... AOSP is open source and written by Google. If you strictly don't want Google, you don't use Android. But IMO it's a shame because AOSP is actually good. You could argue that you don't want to buy a Pixel because that would be giving money to Google, but not giving money to Google does not help the good alternatives, does it? IMO, helping the good alternatives means supporting GrapheneOS. The bigger GrapheneOS gets, the more likely it is that they get to work with major manufacturers (they already work with Motorola, which is great). If you buy a Fairphone and run LineageOS, you are still running Google code (AOSP) and you support Fairphone who do not seem to care so much about security (otherwise they would meet the requirements of GrapheneOS).
- green7ea 3mo ago
  How is /e/ less open than Graphene? As far as I understand, they are both pretty open minus firmware that they can't control? I'm actually curious if there's something I don't know about /e/
  - cromka 3mo ago
    Others explained it in this thread already
defrost 3mo ago
Give it a year, we may have GrapheneOS/Motorola then ... * (March 2026) Motorola announces a partnership with GrapheneOS Foundation - https://motorolanews.com/motorola-three-new-b2b-solutions-at-mwc-2026/ https://motorolanews.com/motorola-three-new-b2b-solutions-at...
gf000 3mo ago
It's because only Pixel devices have proper hardware security to build anything secure on top.
- hkgvk 3mo ago
  Hardware security is irrelevant to me. I just want to leave Google behind me. I do not want Google's hardware.
  - cromka 3mo ago
    So you chose to use Google OS, still? What the hell? Just switch to Apple!
  - flaburgan 3mo ago
    /e/ OS with Fairphone is the good choice for that. Don't listen to cromka, /e/ OS is now fully open as the only proprietary app was the map one and they just replaced it. So, 100% free software. It is less secure than Graphene but also leaks less data to advertising companies.
    - palata 3mo ago
      > /e/ OS with Fairphone is the good choice for that. That's debatable. /e/OS is mostly made of AOSP, which is made by Google. > It is less secure than Graphene Most definitely, yes > but also leaks less data to advertising companies. This is wrong. If you don't use microg on /e/OS or Play Services on GrapheneOS, then it's equivalent. If you use microg, it still contacts the Google servers even though it is an open source reverse-engineered implementation of Play Services. The added privacy there is to go through a proxy, which GrapheneOS offers. I actually like it better to run sandboxed Play Services through the GrapheneOS proxy, because in my experience it works a lot better than microg. Really, the only reason to use LineageOS or /e/OS (which are interesting project, really) is that you cannot run GrapheneOS on your phone. If you have the possibility to use GrapheneOS, there is no good reason not to do it.
      - 3mo ago
prmoustache 3mo ago
I bought a second hand pixel when I had to buy a new phone. Still better for the planet than buying a new fairphone anyway.
petu 3mo ago
Pixels are consistently "third party Android builds friendly", plus GrapheneOS has a list of required security features (beyond their control): https://grapheneos.org/faq#future-devices https://grapheneos.org/faq#future-devices e.g. first one in the list: > Support for using alternate operating systems including full hardware security functionality GrapheneOS wants users to lock the bootloader (≈enable Secure Boot) after install by providing user signing keys (avb_custom_key) -- that already seems to leave only Pixel, Nothing and Fairphone. https://github.com/chenxiaolong/avbroot/issues/299 https://github.com/chenxiaolong/avbroot/issues/299
- cromka 3mo ago
  Why don't they support Fairphone and Nothing, then?
  - HybridStatAnim8 3mo ago
    These devices fall far behind the industry standard hardware security requirements GrapheneOS has.
    - efreak 3mo ago
      If they're only supported on a single line of devices made by a single company and there are thousands of devices made by hundreds of companies, then that's not industry standard. It might be better than industry standard, and it might be good, but it's hardly common.
      - HybridStatAnim8 3mo ago
        Most of the hardware security requirements are met by multiple lines of devices. The issue is, not all of them are met. Many have poor updates or intentionally cripple standard features for anti competitive reasons. So no, they are not "only met on a single line of devices", in fact Samsung gets super close, but they remove yellowboot support and cripple the device if you unlock the bootloader.
    - 3mo ago
microtonal 3mo ago
Sigh, /e/OS. Your phone is running proprietary Google DroidGuard blobs in a privileged process every time an app initiates a Play Integrity request. If you install some Google apps like Google Maps, they are run with more privileges than other apps (their microG fork gives apps elevated privileges when they match certain Google signing key fingerprints). Also, your device is running a firmware bundle provided by Fairphone's Chinese ODM, including TCL image processing blobs. Your phone will soon run an ancient kernel and firmware tree with many known critical CVEs. But this all doesn't matter anyway, because security hardening is only for spies and pedophiles according to the CEO of Murena (the company that makes /e/OS).
- palata 3mo ago
  > security hardening is only for spies and pedophiles according to the CEO of Murena (the company that makes /e/OS). Confirmed, he says it in video: https://x.com/GrapheneOS/status/2040887784253141142 https://x.com/GrapheneOS/status/2040887784253141142
palata 3mo ago
Is the bootloader locked and signed with reasonable keys? If not, you lose the secure boot, which defeats the point of the Android security model. Do you get manufacturer updates? My experience with /e/OS was that the Stock Android was up-to-date but /e/OS was 4 years behind, on a Fairphone. > for reasons I do not understand, Graphene OS is very closely tied with Google hardware One of the requirements is precisely to be able to add custom keys and relock the bootloader, in order to keep the Android security model. Most other phones don't allow that.

by hkgvk 3mo ago

The only reason I have not switched Graphene is because for reasons I do not understand, Graphene OS is very closely tied with Google hardware. I bought a /e/os Fairphone instead.

cromka 3mo ago

Those reasons are explained clearly and openly. Ironically, your /o/OS is way less open than GOS on Google hardware.

hkgvk 3mo ago
I just want to be as far from Google as I can. I do not want to buy google hardware. Graphene does not allow me to do that.
- cromka 3mo ago
  Not only you use Android OS developed by Google, somehow you choose a less open OS distribution, exposing you MORE to Google and their shit, only because you don't want to use their hardware that happens to actually be as open as it gets, including the firmware? Why do you choose to die on that hill? It's ridiculous!
- palata 3mo ago
  I understand the anti-Google feeling, but... AOSP is open source and written by Google. If you strictly don't want Google, you don't use Android. But IMO it's a shame because AOSP is actually good. You could argue that you don't want to buy a Pixel because that would be giving money to Google, but not giving money to Google does not help the good alternatives, does it? IMO, helping the good alternatives means supporting GrapheneOS. The bigger GrapheneOS gets, the more likely it is that they get to work with major manufacturers (they already work with Motorola, which is great). If you buy a Fairphone and run LineageOS, you are still running Google code (AOSP) and you support Fairphone who do not seem to care so much about security (otherwise they would meet the requirements of GrapheneOS).
green7ea 3mo ago
How is /e/ less open than Graphene? As far as I understand, they are both pretty open minus firmware that they can't control? I'm actually curious if there's something I don't know about /e/
- cromka 3mo ago
  Others explained it in this thread already

defrost 3mo ago

Give it a year, we may have GrapheneOS/Motorola then ... * (March 2026) Motorola announces a partnership with GrapheneOS Foundation - https://motorolanews.com/motorola-three-new-b2b-solutions-at-mwc-2026/ https://motorolanews.com/motorola-three-new-b2b-solutions-at...

gf000 3mo ago

It's because only Pixel devices have proper hardware security to build anything secure on top.

hkgvk 3mo ago
Hardware security is irrelevant to me. I just want to leave Google behind me. I do not want Google's hardware.
- cromka 3mo ago
  So you chose to use Google OS, still? What the hell? Just switch to Apple!
- flaburgan 3mo ago
  /e/ OS with Fairphone is the good choice for that. Don't listen to cromka, /e/ OS is now fully open as the only proprietary app was the map one and they just replaced it. So, 100% free software. It is less secure than Graphene but also leaks less data to advertising companies.
  - palata 3mo ago
    > /e/ OS with Fairphone is the good choice for that. That's debatable. /e/OS is mostly made of AOSP, which is made by Google. > It is less secure than Graphene Most definitely, yes > but also leaks less data to advertising companies. This is wrong. If you don't use microg on /e/OS or Play Services on GrapheneOS, then it's equivalent. If you use microg, it still contacts the Google servers even though it is an open source reverse-engineered implementation of Play Services. The added privacy there is to go through a proxy, which GrapheneOS offers. I actually like it better to run sandboxed Play Services through the GrapheneOS proxy, because in my experience it works a lot better than microg. Really, the only reason to use LineageOS or /e/OS (which are interesting project, really) is that you cannot run GrapheneOS on your phone. If you have the possibility to use GrapheneOS, there is no good reason not to do it.
    - 3mo ago

prmoustache 3mo ago

I bought a second hand pixel when I had to buy a new phone. Still better for the planet than buying a new fairphone anyway.

petu 3mo ago

Pixels are consistently "third party Android builds friendly", plus GrapheneOS has a list of required security features (beyond their control): https://grapheneos.org/faq#future-devices https://grapheneos.org/faq#future-devices e.g. first one in the list: > Support for using alternate operating systems including full hardware security functionality GrapheneOS wants users to lock the bootloader (≈enable Secure Boot) after install by providing user signing keys (avb_custom_key) -- that already seems to leave only Pixel, Nothing and Fairphone. https://github.com/chenxiaolong/avbroot/issues/299 https://github.com/chenxiaolong/avbroot/issues/299

cromka 3mo ago
Why don't they support Fairphone and Nothing, then?
- HybridStatAnim8 3mo ago
  These devices fall far behind the industry standard hardware security requirements GrapheneOS has.
  - efreak 3mo ago
    If they're only supported on a single line of devices made by a single company and there are thousands of devices made by hundreds of companies, then that's not industry standard. It might be better than industry standard, and it might be good, but it's hardly common.
    - HybridStatAnim8 3mo ago
      Most of the hardware security requirements are met by multiple lines of devices. The issue is, not all of them are met. Many have poor updates or intentionally cripple standard features for anti competitive reasons. So no, they are not "only met on a single line of devices", in fact Samsung gets super close, but they remove yellowboot support and cripple the device if you unlock the bootloader.
  - 3mo ago

microtonal 3mo ago

Sigh, /e/OS. Your phone is running proprietary Google DroidGuard blobs in a privileged process every time an app initiates a Play Integrity request. If you install some Google apps like Google Maps, they are run with more privileges than other apps (their microG fork gives apps elevated privileges when they match certain Google signing key fingerprints). Also, your device is running a firmware bundle provided by Fairphone's Chinese ODM, including TCL image processing blobs. Your phone will soon run an ancient kernel and firmware tree with many known critical CVEs. But this all doesn't matter anyway, because security hardening is only for spies and pedophiles according to the CEO of Murena (the company that makes /e/OS).

palata 3mo ago
> security hardening is only for spies and pedophiles according to the CEO of Murena (the company that makes /e/OS). Confirmed, he says it in video: https://x.com/GrapheneOS/status/2040887784253141142 https://x.com/GrapheneOS/status/2040887784253141142

palata 3mo ago

Is the bootloader locked and signed with reasonable keys? If not, you lose the secure boot, which defeats the point of the Android security model. Do you get manufacturer updates? My experience with /e/OS was that the Stock Android was up-to-date but /e/OS was 4 years behind, on a Fairphone. > for reasons I do not understand, Graphene OS is very closely tied with Google hardware One of the requirements is precisely to be able to add custom keys and relock the bootloader, in order to keep the Android security model. Most other phones don't allow that.