6 ms·

They are not subject to jurisdiction, where the hell did you get that idea? If a diplomat does something that would be a crime in the US, they are _asked_ to le

by fmobus 3mo ago

They are not subject to jurisdiction, where the hell did you get that idea? If a diplomat does something that would be a crime in the US, they are _asked_ to leave via diplomatic channels. They usually leave on their own. If they were under US jurisdiction, they could be TRIED in the US, but that basically never happens. The only few exceptions you will find to this were either cases where a) the person was not really immune to begin with b) their country waived the immunity or c) the immunity lapsed because the person did not leave the country in a reasonable timeframe after being asked to

wang_li 3mo ago
If a diplomat is going on a shooting spree they can be shot and killed with no ensuing issues as a result of US law enforcement enforcing laws in the moment. If they are robbing a seven-eleven they can be arrested and held until arraignment. They can be ordered to remain in their home, aka house arrest. They can be ordered to leave and they have no option to remain in the country. The US constitution does not grant diplomats immunity it is something we have agreed to via treaty and law. They are 100% subject to our laws, that's why our law granting them immunity applies.
- deleted 3mo ago
  [deleted]
- IAmBroom 3mo ago
  That flies in the face of what I understand is true about diplomatic immunity. Citation required. As a less extreme example, diplomats can and DO park their vehicles illegally: in No Parking zones, Handicap Only zones, and blocking fire hydrants. Diplomat plates render the police unable to ticket them. It's civil not criminal courts, but for the exact reason that they are immune to our laws.
  - wang_li 3mo ago
    A diplomatic vehicle that is a safety hazard can be towed. A city/state cannot enforce any fines, but they can definitely clear any safety or traffic related issues. I would start with Vienna Convention on Diplomatic Relations and go from there.
  - rayiner 3mo ago
    [flagged]
    - FireBeyond 3mo ago
      And also, depending on the crime (and acknowledging it is easier in some cases than others), countries have often agreed to prosecute the diplomat in their home country. There's also the fact that Diplomatic Immunity is also a lot narrower than people think. Consular Officers are generally not covered by it, but then you get in to the de facto. Okay, NYPD sees consular plates and doesn't ticket a vehicle. Or tickets it but there's no enforcement, because "maybe it's the Ambassador's vehicle". And then a city, state or country is generally not going to make a scene that affects ambassadorial relations over a few hundred, or thousand, dollars of parking tickets.
    - derdi 3mo ago
      IANAL, but it seems to me like the US could totally pass laws regulating Germans on German soil. It just couldn't enforce them in US courts (short of kidnapping Germans from German soil, or luring them to the US somehow). So it would be mostly pointless but not impossible. Also, multiple countries have laws claiming universal jurisdiction. As I understand it, French laws against genocide denial claim to apply universally. From your own discussion, it seems like "subject to the jurisdiction" should be understood as "can be judged in court". Diplomat is immune = can't be judged = not subject to jurisdiction. Immunity lifted = can be judged = subject to jurisdiction.
rayiner 3mo ago
[flagged]

by fmobus 3mo ago

wang_li 3mo ago

If a diplomat is going on a shooting spree they can be shot and killed with no ensuing issues as a result of US law enforcement enforcing laws in the moment. If they are robbing a seven-eleven they can be arrested and held until arraignment. They can be ordered to remain in their home, aka house arrest. They can be ordered to leave and they have no option to remain in the country. The US constitution does not grant diplomats immunity it is something we have agreed to via treaty and law. They are 100% subject to our laws, that's why our law granting them immunity applies.

deleted 3mo ago
[deleted]
IAmBroom 3mo ago
That flies in the face of what I understand is true about diplomatic immunity. Citation required. As a less extreme example, diplomats can and DO park their vehicles illegally: in No Parking zones, Handicap Only zones, and blocking fire hydrants. Diplomat plates render the police unable to ticket them. It's civil not criminal courts, but for the exact reason that they are immune to our laws.
- wang_li 3mo ago
  A diplomatic vehicle that is a safety hazard can be towed. A city/state cannot enforce any fines, but they can definitely clear any safety or traffic related issues. I would start with Vienna Convention on Diplomatic Relations and go from there.
- rayiner 3mo ago
  [flagged]
  - FireBeyond 3mo ago
    And also, depending on the crime (and acknowledging it is easier in some cases than others), countries have often agreed to prosecute the diplomat in their home country. There's also the fact that Diplomatic Immunity is also a lot narrower than people think. Consular Officers are generally not covered by it, but then you get in to the de facto. Okay, NYPD sees consular plates and doesn't ticket a vehicle. Or tickets it but there's no enforcement, because "maybe it's the Ambassador's vehicle". And then a city, state or country is generally not going to make a scene that affects ambassadorial relations over a few hundred, or thousand, dollars of parking tickets.
  - derdi 3mo ago
    IANAL, but it seems to me like the US could totally pass laws regulating Germans on German soil. It just couldn't enforce them in US courts (short of kidnapping Germans from German soil, or luring them to the US somehow). So it would be mostly pointless but not impossible. Also, multiple countries have laws claiming universal jurisdiction. As I understand it, French laws against genocide denial claim to apply universally. From your own discussion, it seems like "subject to the jurisdiction" should be understood as "can be judged in court". Diplomat is immune = can't be judged = not subject to jurisdiction. Immunity lifted = can be judged = subject to jurisdiction.

rayiner 3mo ago

[flagged]