4 ms·
Just to be clear, the January 6 defendants: - were a group of at least 1000 people - who, among other things, erected a noose on the capitol grounds, brought
by ipython 3mo ago
Just to be clear, the January 6 defendants:
- were a group of at least 1000 people
- who, among other things, erected a noose on the capitol grounds, brought zip ties and weapons
- forcefully overran several capital police barricades intended to deter their entrance
- used any weapon available including poles etc to violently attack any police in their way
Granted they did not explicitly shoot any federal agents with a firearm, but in the J6 case, I’d say I’d lay blame for the subsequent deaths of the police officers who did die at the hands of the rioters.
To be clear I do not condone violence in either case.
However those 1000+ individuals on January 6 were ultimately pardoned for their actions. The family of one was in fact paid $5 million in taxpayer money because she was shot in a vain attempt to repel the crowd.
Why then should these defendants be treated completely differently? One gets the law, the other has their convictions overturned completely and history rewritten in their favor.
Btw I do not believe the individual who was charged in the article shot the federal agent or was part of the “concealed position” etc. So bringing that up is just an appeal to brush that individual with the actions of others.
- paisawalla 3mo ago[flagged]
- ipython 3mo agoSo you’re telling me the jan6 defendants had no intention to cause harm to the lawmakers? Actual people died on jan6- nobody died at prarieland afaik. Have you seen the footage from the riots? They clobbered the shit out of the police trying to protect the lawmakers inside the capitol. For example this guy: https://i.insider.com/6009c83521f52a0018cb9e21?width=1200&format=jpeg https://i.insider.com/6009c83521f52a0018cb9e21?width=1200&fo... I’m sure he was just on his way to rebundle some loose cat5 cable down the hall with his zip ties. And the person who is the subject of this article, did he personally commit all the acts you listed?
- iamnothere 3mo agoFor clarity, only people who died on Jan 6th were protestors. The police officer who died on the 7th had a stroke. The two who died later were suicides. It’s negligent to conceal these facts. (Note for clarity, almost everybody posting in this thread on every side is doing this kind of thing. Just move on to the “years of lead” phase already.)
- goatlover 3mo agoFor clarification, the Jan 6th rioters were attempting insurrection, not protesting. The stroke and suicides were a result of the rioters actions.
- iamnothere 3mo ago[flagged]
- ipython 3mo agoWhat would you suggest? There are real divisions in this country and a lack of shared ground truth. This thread among many is an example. I vouched for your earlier comment stating the proximate cause of death for those involved in January 6 because you’re correct. Still, it’s hard for me to then say with a straight face that, for example, officer sicknick would have died of a stroke if the riot didn’t happen. That said, nobody was charged with murder or manslaughter in connection with his death, and I respect that even if it doesn’t feel just. Either way, god bless his soul and the other officers who tragically took their own lives.
- iamnothere 3mo agoI don’t know what to suggest, because it’s become commonplace to lie and distort the truth among both sides. Neither one will likely stop doing it because that might give the other side an advantage. I would say that non-partisans should hold them to account, but that’s only possible if you’re not overly concerned about the penalty for doing so. Doing this in person could lead you to catch a beating, which is ridiculous. Somewhere there is a crown lying in the gutter with the words “The Truth” written on it. Someone could pick it up and start using it at any time, and everyone would love it. The only problem is that this person would need a strong network with powerful backers before they pick up that crown, because too many powerful people benefit when the public believes in lies. So maybe the starting point is building that network. A network of people willing to face hard truths, and to defend those truths once someone starts bringing them forward. I’m not sure it’s possible. Americans love lying and being lied to. For the record, I think all the deaths connected with the event were tragic, including both the protestors and officers.
- goatlover 3mo agoGive me a beak. The J6 rioters wanted to hang the Vice President and members of Congress. They had violent intent.
- anigbrowl 3mo agoThe different scale of intention was to overturn the results of a federal general election, effectively a coup to seize back control over the government. I can see why you consider the incident in Texas to be terrorism, but you want to ignore the entire point of the J6 event and pretend it was just some normal event where a few participants got a little out of hand? Get real.
- Auracle 3mo agoAlright, so all of these die hard Republicans had a plan to do a coup...and none of them brought guns to the actual coup? Really? It was stupid for many reasons, but it was a riot, not some preplanned ambush with weapons like is being talked about in the OP.
- mikem170 3mo agoThere were lots of Jan 6 weapons related convictions: "180 defendants were charged with entering a restricted area with a dangerous or deadly weapon, which includes firearms and other types of weapons." [0] What you described as a riot is considered by others to be part of a "fake electors" plot, to keep Trump in power after he lost the election [1], a plot which Pence didn't go along with. Trump even tweeted that day about it: "If Vice President @Mike_Pence comes through for us, we will win the Presidency." [2] [0] https://www.reuters.com/fact-check/us-capitol-attack-rioters-had-weapons-including-firearms-2025-01-16/ https://www.reuters.com/fact-check/us-capitol-attack-rioters... [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trump_fake_electors_plot https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trump_fake_electors_plot [2] https://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/documents/tweets-january-6-2021 https://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/documents/tweets-january-6-2...
- ipython 3mo agoSo in that case, what were they there to do, exactly? Don't forget, an actual noose was erected on the capitol grounds: https://www.nytimes.com/2022/06/16/us/politics/jan-6-gallows.html https://www.nytimes.com/2022/06/16/us/politics/jan-6-gallows.... Do I think they intended to literally drag Mike Pence out and physically hang him? No. But damned if that doesn't send a clear message.
- joe_mamba 3mo ago[flagged]
- ipython 3mo agoNo the jan6 rioters just used poles and batons and such to beat the shit out of police- some who died afterward. https://youtu.be/DXnHIJkZZAs?si=zDKJcly9KMBY_GgJ https://youtu.be/DXnHIJkZZAs?si=zDKJcly9KMBY_GgJ I mean - seriously? It’s ok to do this?
- joe_mamba 3mo ago[flagged]
- ipython 3mo agoShifting the goal posts. I’m talking about the selective prosecution and you’ve tried to equate that with hn sentiment. Does it really matter what the double standard is for a bunch of keyboard warriors arguing over imaginary internet points? No! But it makes a shit ton of difference when the state, with a monopoly on violence and justice, makes a public showing over its double standard. That double standard has impacts on the freedom and lives of people. And your nihilism is exactly how we got into this mess in the first place. “They all suck, so why not elect the clown and see how much he can shake things up”.
- joe_mamba 3mo ago[flagged]
- ipython 3mo agoSo again the hn hypocrisy doesn’t matter. The only thing on the line for me is whether my imaginary internet points balance increases or decreases. The feds on the other hand have the power to send you to federal prison or to pardon you and literally pay you off. Given that we don’t have God himself running for president, we have to suffice with imperfect representation. And so yes I end up picking a side because that’s the system we have at the moment. As to your point about “picking sides” - why aren’t you upset about the pardons yourself in that matter? Shouldn’t they be held accountable?
- cucumber3732842 3mo ago[flagged]
- ipython 3mo agoUgh let’s not get all conspiracy theory up in here. Show me real evidence of that and I’ll believe you. Until then - to say at the same time - the Feds are so incompetent and also the Feds are organizing an elaborate secret network of agitators to be at all major protests and riots - let’s just say the logic doesn’t logic.
- mothballed 3mo agoThey are incompetent at catching crime generated by other people. They're very good at catching crime they generate themselves.
- kgwxd 3mo agoThe plant things was constantly projected by them, so they've definitely done it. That is the whole point of projecting.
- cucumber3732842 3mo ago>Ugh let’s not get all conspiracy theory up in here. Show me real evidence of that and I’ll believe you. Um, like half of all these "attack the government in some capacity" plots in the last 40yr. Probably more if you count all the "radical islamic terrorists" they riled up in the 00s and 10s when that was the cool thing for law enforcement to be entrapping. The Michigan Fednapping is probably the most hilarious case since it turned out there were more feds than not who were in on it.
- malcolmgreaves 3mo agoTrump helped organize and encourage the January 6th insurrection. He was president during the insurrection. So yes, there was a lot of federal Republican help during that one.
- dmurray 3mo ago[flagged]
- paulryanrogers 3mo agoJ6 insurrectionists got many years less than 30, for doing far more than hiding very weak circumstantial evidence.
- stronglikedan 3mo ago[flagged]
- bikezen 3mo agoYou realize that there multiple armed contingents planning and organizing to literally raid the Capitol for J6 right? That's why the pround boys were a focus of much of the investigation.
- JackFr 3mo agoBut they were largely convicted and jailed. One absolute moral abomination of a human is responsible for pardoning them. (Thanks founders!) The disparity in sentencing is likely that they credibly set an ambush to murder law enforcement
- mulmen 3mo ago“Largely” is doing a lot of work there because people who didn’t commit acts of violence weren’t held accountable for them.
- victorbjorklund 3mo agoHow many of the people where sentenced to long prison time?
- adamsb6 3mo agoEnrique Tarrio got 22 years and he wasn’t even there.
- vel0city 3mo agoYeah but imagine if you were also sentenced for 30 years not because you were there on January 6th but because your friend who was there asked you to pick up all those MAGA hats from his home.
- snvzz 3mo ago[flagged]