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For context, from wiki: > Remigration is a far-right concept referring to ethnic cleansing via mass deportation of non-white minority populations [...] to thei

For context, from wiki: > Remigration is a far-right concept referring to ethnic cleansing via mass deportation of non-white minority populations [...] to their place of racial ancestry

Auracle 3mo ago
[flagged]
- Atotalnoob 3mo ago
  Ah grokipedia, the fountain of unbiased knowledge. It’s pretty radicle to remove people who have lived in your country for generations.
  - Auracle 3mo ago
    [flagged]
    - pcl 3mo ago
      Following your lead, I haven’t researched Örebro’s proposed policies. But I would find it surprising if “large scale remigration” really was scoped to an everyman’s definition of “few years”. I would expect that their targets for “large scale” exceed three or four years’ worth of immigration.
      - Auracle 3mo ago
        Even if you scope it out to "everyone that's not a citizen or has the equivalent of a green card," is that so evil? If a country accepts immigrants they should be able to send them back at will unless they become citizens. That shouldn't be controversial. You can argue if it's a good or bad policy, of course, but it's not ethically wrong to do so. Yes, they'll be in more danger and have worse lives when they go back to wherever they came from, but again - a country should exist to serve its citizens, not the entire world. It's not sustainable.
        yw3410 3mo ago
        Re-migration almost always targets children _born_ in the country. In this thread a speaker of the party is quoted as talking about people who had Swedish passports i.e. citizens. Would you not see it as ethically bad to split the citizens into "true" citizens who can't have their citizenship stripped and second tier citizens who can? And if the country only serves the former...
        Auracle 3mo ago
        > Would you not see it as ethically bad to split the citizens into "true" citizens who can't have their citizenship stripped and second tier citizens who can? Potentially. I'm not familiar enough with their system to have an opinion. In the US system, I feel like actual citizenship is the hard line. With everything else you're here at our convenience, though I'd say if we were to kick out greencard holders en masse (for some reason) it should just be that they don't get renewed, not immediately kicked out.
        andrewshadura 3mo ago
        Yes, it is very much accepted and pretty uncontroversial that it is unethical to send someone away who’s made a new home in some country. Tearing them out of the local community and kicking them out against their will is immoral.
    - jasonlotito 3mo ago
      > Which one is less biased? Wikipedia > Slopipedia. xAI's Grokipedia is 100% more biased, given who controls it and its known tendency to manipulate results. Finally, there are lots of cases where it completely fails. And I didn't even get to the "porn" stuff. Hell, even it's creator says it's trash.
      - Auracle 3mo ago
        It's incredible that someone can come to that conclusion when given direct evidence to the contrary. Which blurb is closer to Merriam-Webster? Or are they biased as well. I just skimmed both Wikipedia and Grokipedia's articles on remigration. Wikipedia has effectively no positives or reasons why people would want remigration listed at all. Almost the entire page is criticism, including a large section of tenuous links to nazism. Grokipedia lists BOTH positives and criticisms of the policy. Which one is designed to push an agenda and which is there to inform and let people make up their own minds? Larry Sanger (one of the Wikipedia cofounders) was just blocked by Wikipedia indefinitely for trying to balance the ideology back out.
        jasonlotito 3mo ago
        > Larry Sanger (one of the Wikipedia cofounders) was just blocked by Wikipedia indefinitely for trying to balance the ideology back out. That's a lie. He, someone who hasn't been involved with Wikipedia for 25+ years, was blocked for breaking the rules of Wikipedia.
- stanleykm 3mo ago
  The immigrants they are specifically looking to remove are middle eastern and african. they certainly dont have canadians in mind when coming up with these policies. the west is incredibly extractive of the rest of the world and the “mass migration” from the rest of the world is a result of that. want people to go back home? stop bombing their countries. stop stealing their resources. stop abducting and assassinating their leaders. stop propping up governments that sell out the country for a bag of cash with dollar signs on the side.
  - ibejoeb 3mo ago
    I'm open to this argument. How much bombing and assassinating is Sweden actually doing?
    - stanleykm 3mo ago
      i dont think it’s that useful to think about it in terms of individual countries. like its a nice rhetorical trick to go “look at how innocent sweden is”, ignoring the fact they are indeed a nato member, but they are part of the greater western capitalist bloc aka “global north” that benefits from these actions. we suppress wages in the rest of the world to keep manufacturing cheap (and then wonder why there are no factory jobs anymore…), we install leaders who sell our companies natural resources for pennies on the dollar, we control the flow of global trade by mandating that goods need to trade in our currencies. like let me put it to you this way - you buy a shirt made in vietnam. how much would that cost if it was made in sweden? well why shouldnt that money go to vietnam if it was rightly made there?
      - ibejoeb 3mo ago
        It's not trick. We weren't before invoking collective responsibility. But if now we are, fine. (Leave it alone that Sweden has been in NATO for, what, 18 months? ) Two follow-up questions, then: 1. Does the "east" have the same responsibility, or should the "west" bear it all? 2. Are Middle Eastern and African countries that much more peaceful than western countries? If so, then I suppose you are right. If not, should we at least consider that as sort of an offset to the responsibility? As far as the shirt made in Vietnam goes: I think that the manufacturer in Vietnam is getting paid for it. Am I wrong?
ReptileMan 3mo ago
[flagged]
- solid_fuel 3mo ago
  > The majority of people to be remigrated if the party succeeds are not even citizens. And what of the ones who are citizens?
  - ReptileMan 3mo ago
    Create a procedure for stripping the citizenship of the naturalized ones as punishment for committed crimes. If they behave I guess they could stay.
    - catlikesshrimp 3mo ago
      Trivia: there is a country in America where people can be stripped of their nationality for "treason", which amounts to go agaisnt the government. This means people can be left without civil rights, and can't enter the country if they were abroad. All born inside the country, born from both national parents or naturalized are elegible. This year they declared acquiring the nationality of another country also made you elegible to be barren from their native country. Nicaragua is really something weird, but all humans are capable of dehumanizing other people.
    - wat10000 3mo ago
      Why only the naturalized ones?
    - OrvalWintermute 3mo ago
      Stripping of naturalization in the US is usually associated with immigration fraud. Terrorist/Nazi Concentration Camp Guard lies on immigration forms, decades later is found out and gets the boot
- InsideOutSanta 3mo ago
  > The majority of people to be remigrated if the party succeeds are not even citizens The fact that people can say this without immediately noticing the problem is absolutely mind-blowing.
blockmarker 3mo ago
[flagged]
- Aachen 3mo ago
  I'm not sure there's a point diving into this wilful ignorance. Maybe try reading the conditions to enter Sweden and an article or two about slavery before using the term "mass importation"
  - blockmarker 3mo ago
    In 2022, 20% of the population of Sweden was born outside of Sweden. I'm not the one engaging in willful ignorance. And unless you are saying that these people are slaves, the only purpose of mentioning slavery is character assassination
    - Aachen 3mo ago
      "importing" people was your choice of words, not mine. If you don't want to read about the checks in place, I don't know what to tell you here
adamrezich 3mo ago
For more context, from wiki: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_grenade_attacks_in_Sweden https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_grenade_attacks_in_Swe... Sweden is the only country I'm aware of that has a Wikipedia page specifically about this incredibly niche local phenomenon which by the way has no correlation to anything being discussed here at all.
- slater 3mo ago
  > Sweden is the only country I'm aware of that has a Wikipedia page specifically about this incredibly niche local phenomenon Scroll to the bottom... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Grenade_attacks_by_country https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Grenade_attacks_by_co...
  - adamrezich 3mo ago
    Look again—there's only one “List of grenade attacks in x” article.
    - slater 3mo ago
      i keep coming back to this... what's the difference between the countries listed vs. Sweden singled out further down? Recency and context? And we're led to believe that Sweden has been under sustained attacks pretty much annually, except for the years between 1994 and 2002...? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_grenade_attacks_in_Sweden#List_of_noted_attacks https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_grenade_attacks_in_Swe...

For context, from wiki: > Remigration is a far-right concept referring to ethnic cleansing via mass deportation of non-white minority populations [...] to their place of racial ancestry

Auracle 3mo ago

[flagged]

Atotalnoob 3mo ago
Ah grokipedia, the fountain of unbiased knowledge. It’s pretty radicle to remove people who have lived in your country for generations.
- Auracle 3mo ago
  [flagged]
  - pcl 3mo ago
    Following your lead, I haven’t researched Örebro’s proposed policies. But I would find it surprising if “large scale remigration” really was scoped to an everyman’s definition of “few years”. I would expect that their targets for “large scale” exceed three or four years’ worth of immigration.
    - Auracle 3mo ago
      Even if you scope it out to "everyone that's not a citizen or has the equivalent of a green card," is that so evil? If a country accepts immigrants they should be able to send them back at will unless they become citizens. That shouldn't be controversial. You can argue if it's a good or bad policy, of course, but it's not ethically wrong to do so. Yes, they'll be in more danger and have worse lives when they go back to wherever they came from, but again - a country should exist to serve its citizens, not the entire world. It's not sustainable.
      - yw3410 3mo ago
        Re-migration almost always targets children _born_ in the country. In this thread a speaker of the party is quoted as talking about people who had Swedish passports i.e. citizens. Would you not see it as ethically bad to split the citizens into "true" citizens who can't have their citizenship stripped and second tier citizens who can? And if the country only serves the former...
        Auracle 3mo ago
        > Would you not see it as ethically bad to split the citizens into "true" citizens who can't have their citizenship stripped and second tier citizens who can? Potentially. I'm not familiar enough with their system to have an opinion. In the US system, I feel like actual citizenship is the hard line. With everything else you're here at our convenience, though I'd say if we were to kick out greencard holders en masse (for some reason) it should just be that they don't get renewed, not immediately kicked out.
      - andrewshadura 3mo ago
        Yes, it is very much accepted and pretty uncontroversial that it is unethical to send someone away who’s made a new home in some country. Tearing them out of the local community and kicking them out against their will is immoral.
  - jasonlotito 3mo ago
    > Which one is less biased? Wikipedia > Slopipedia. xAI's Grokipedia is 100% more biased, given who controls it and its known tendency to manipulate results. Finally, there are lots of cases where it completely fails. And I didn't even get to the "porn" stuff. Hell, even it's creator says it's trash.
    - Auracle 3mo ago
      It's incredible that someone can come to that conclusion when given direct evidence to the contrary. Which blurb is closer to Merriam-Webster? Or are they biased as well. I just skimmed both Wikipedia and Grokipedia's articles on remigration. Wikipedia has effectively no positives or reasons why people would want remigration listed at all. Almost the entire page is criticism, including a large section of tenuous links to nazism. Grokipedia lists BOTH positives and criticisms of the policy. Which one is designed to push an agenda and which is there to inform and let people make up their own minds? Larry Sanger (one of the Wikipedia cofounders) was just blocked by Wikipedia indefinitely for trying to balance the ideology back out.
      - jasonlotito 3mo ago
        > Larry Sanger (one of the Wikipedia cofounders) was just blocked by Wikipedia indefinitely for trying to balance the ideology back out. That's a lie. He, someone who hasn't been involved with Wikipedia for 25+ years, was blocked for breaking the rules of Wikipedia.
stanleykm 3mo ago
The immigrants they are specifically looking to remove are middle eastern and african. they certainly dont have canadians in mind when coming up with these policies. the west is incredibly extractive of the rest of the world and the “mass migration” from the rest of the world is a result of that. want people to go back home? stop bombing their countries. stop stealing their resources. stop abducting and assassinating their leaders. stop propping up governments that sell out the country for a bag of cash with dollar signs on the side.
- ibejoeb 3mo ago
  I'm open to this argument. How much bombing and assassinating is Sweden actually doing?
  - stanleykm 3mo ago
    i dont think it’s that useful to think about it in terms of individual countries. like its a nice rhetorical trick to go “look at how innocent sweden is”, ignoring the fact they are indeed a nato member, but they are part of the greater western capitalist bloc aka “global north” that benefits from these actions. we suppress wages in the rest of the world to keep manufacturing cheap (and then wonder why there are no factory jobs anymore…), we install leaders who sell our companies natural resources for pennies on the dollar, we control the flow of global trade by mandating that goods need to trade in our currencies. like let me put it to you this way - you buy a shirt made in vietnam. how much would that cost if it was made in sweden? well why shouldnt that money go to vietnam if it was rightly made there?
    - ibejoeb 3mo ago
      It's not trick. We weren't before invoking collective responsibility. But if now we are, fine. (Leave it alone that Sweden has been in NATO for, what, 18 months? ) Two follow-up questions, then: 1. Does the "east" have the same responsibility, or should the "west" bear it all? 2. Are Middle Eastern and African countries that much more peaceful than western countries? If so, then I suppose you are right. If not, should we at least consider that as sort of an offset to the responsibility? As far as the shirt made in Vietnam goes: I think that the manufacturer in Vietnam is getting paid for it. Am I wrong?

ReptileMan 3mo ago

[flagged]

solid_fuel 3mo ago
> The majority of people to be remigrated if the party succeeds are not even citizens. And what of the ones who are citizens?
- ReptileMan 3mo ago
  Create a procedure for stripping the citizenship of the naturalized ones as punishment for committed crimes. If they behave I guess they could stay.
  - catlikesshrimp 3mo ago
    Trivia: there is a country in America where people can be stripped of their nationality for "treason", which amounts to go agaisnt the government. This means people can be left without civil rights, and can't enter the country if they were abroad. All born inside the country, born from both national parents or naturalized are elegible. This year they declared acquiring the nationality of another country also made you elegible to be barren from their native country. Nicaragua is really something weird, but all humans are capable of dehumanizing other people.
  - wat10000 3mo ago
    Why only the naturalized ones?
  - OrvalWintermute 3mo ago
    Stripping of naturalization in the US is usually associated with immigration fraud. Terrorist/Nazi Concentration Camp Guard lies on immigration forms, decades later is found out and gets the boot
InsideOutSanta 3mo ago
> The majority of people to be remigrated if the party succeeds are not even citizens The fact that people can say this without immediately noticing the problem is absolutely mind-blowing.

blockmarker 3mo ago

[flagged]

Aachen 3mo ago
I'm not sure there's a point diving into this wilful ignorance. Maybe try reading the conditions to enter Sweden and an article or two about slavery before using the term "mass importation"
- blockmarker 3mo ago
  In 2022, 20% of the population of Sweden was born outside of Sweden. I'm not the one engaging in willful ignorance. And unless you are saying that these people are slaves, the only purpose of mentioning slavery is character assassination
  - Aachen 3mo ago
    "importing" people was your choice of words, not mine. If you don't want to read about the checks in place, I don't know what to tell you here

adamrezich 3mo ago

For more context, from wiki: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_grenade_attacks_in_Sweden https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_grenade_attacks_in_Swe... Sweden is the only country I'm aware of that has a Wikipedia page specifically about this incredibly niche local phenomenon which by the way has no correlation to anything being discussed here at all.

slater 3mo ago
> Sweden is the only country I'm aware of that has a Wikipedia page specifically about this incredibly niche local phenomenon Scroll to the bottom... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Grenade_attacks_by_country https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Grenade_attacks_by_co...
- adamrezich 3mo ago
  Look again—there's only one “List of grenade attacks in x” article.
  - slater 3mo ago
    i keep coming back to this... what's the difference between the countries listed vs. Sweden singled out further down? Recency and context? And we're led to believe that Sweden has been under sustained attacks pretty much annually, except for the years between 1994 and 2002...? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_grenade_attacks_in_Sweden#List_of_noted_attacks https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_grenade_attacks_in_Swe...