7 ms·

> buy a card with a UUID from anywhere that sells alcohol/tobacco that is valid for some period of time Why should I pay continuously to prove I'm an adult? A

> buy a card with a UUID from anywhere that sells alcohol/tobacco that is valid for some period of time Why should I pay continuously to prove I'm an adult? And those cards will be getting sold to kids faster than you can blink. I bet a lot of parents would buy them for their kids.

john_strinlai 3mo ago
>And those cards will be getting sold to kids faster than you can blink. there's a reason i said 90% and not 100% effective. alcohol and tobacco get resold to kids, too.
- fl4regun 3mo ago
  What makes you think this will be close to 90%? Unless these cards are expensive I don't see that happening.
  - john_strinlai 3mo ago
    >What makes you think this will be close to 90%? Unless these cards are expensive I don't see that happening. its obviously just an illustrative guess. but if the penalty of possessing the card is similar to underage possession of alcohol/tobacco, and larger penalties if a store/person is found providing a card to someone underage, i see no reason why it wouldnt have a similar success rate as alcohol/tobacco.
    - inigyou 3mo ago
      Why possess the card when you can just buy the UUID on the dark web
      - triceratops 3mo ago
        Kids can buy drugs on the dark web too.
      - john_strinlai 3mo ago
        sure? i feel like i need to reemphasize the "not going for 100% effectiveness" thing again. hopefully some parent steps in if their kid is on the dark web trying to make purchases with their parent's credit card.
        kbelder 3mo ago
        Well, yeah, I would just give them my code.
      - bilkow 3mo ago
        If they have access to the "dark web" they can already do anything that requires age verification there. In the same way you expect that the rule to "not sell UUIDs" wouldn't be respected there, I wouldn't expect other age-verification rules to be respected, no matter the verification method.
        inigyou 3mo ago
        Well, it's rather harder to sell bottles of beer on the dark web than short text strings.
        bilkow 3mo ago
        That is true, it is harder, although AFAIK people do sell all kinds of illegal things there.
      - anigbrowl 3mo ago
        Why buy a UUID when you can just get porn on the dark web
  - palata 3mo ago
    Let's try it. If it doesn't help the kids, we can remove it I guess. Anything that doesn't accept this limitation becomes dystopian. The only viable age verification system is one that cannot be 100% effective, period.
CPLX 3mo ago
Why should you pay for an internet connection, or a computing device with a screen? This isn't a serious counterargument.
- fluoridation 3mo ago
  Because those things cost money to make and to maintain, whereas there's no intrinsic cost to prove one is an adult.
  - CPLX 3mo ago
    Yes there is. You need to pay for a drivers license or a passport and so on. So there is an intrinsic cost to prove who you are where you are from and what your birthday is already. You have to pay for all sorts of small things to participate in normal society. This isn't a serious criticism. By definition this is not a life critical thing, it's something that is procured in order to access specific services on the internet, which is not free.
    - fluoridation 3mo ago
      >You need to pay for a drivers license or a passport and so on. I have a government ID and I didn't pay for it. I can use it to travel to nearby countries in lieu of a passport. The assumption that IDs are necessarily non-free (to the issuee) is pretty funny to me. >it's something that is procured in order to access specific services on the internet, which is not free. The maintenance of the Internet is already paid for through ISP contracts.
      - CPLX 3mo ago
        I mean, if you really want to make the government subsidize an ID verification scheme or mandate that certain real-world locations provide age verification as a social service for everyone, that's fine. It's orthogonal to the discussion, though, which is about whether we should do it or not, because the costs here aren't significant and don't change the terms of the debate.
sdeframond 3mo ago
> I bet a lot of parents would buy them for their kids. That changes the default from "anyone can do anything" to "gotta ask parents". Defaults matter at scale. It adds friction.
drdexebtjl 3mo ago
> I bet a lot of parents would buy them for their kids. Good. I should be able to make judgement calls about what my children can or can’t access outside of school. It’s better if they do it under my supervision than against my back, aided by a predator whose only moat is lending their ID, or their face.

john_strinlai 3mo ago

>And those cards will be getting sold to kids faster than you can blink. there's a reason i said 90% and not 100% effective. alcohol and tobacco get resold to kids, too.

fl4regun 3mo ago
What makes you think this will be close to 90%? Unless these cards are expensive I don't see that happening.
- john_strinlai 3mo ago
  >What makes you think this will be close to 90%? Unless these cards are expensive I don't see that happening. its obviously just an illustrative guess. but if the penalty of possessing the card is similar to underage possession of alcohol/tobacco, and larger penalties if a store/person is found providing a card to someone underage, i see no reason why it wouldnt have a similar success rate as alcohol/tobacco.
  - inigyou 3mo ago
    Why possess the card when you can just buy the UUID on the dark web
    - triceratops 3mo ago
      Kids can buy drugs on the dark web too.
    - john_strinlai 3mo ago
      sure? i feel like i need to reemphasize the "not going for 100% effectiveness" thing again. hopefully some parent steps in if their kid is on the dark web trying to make purchases with their parent's credit card.
      - kbelder 3mo ago
        Well, yeah, I would just give them my code.
    - bilkow 3mo ago
      If they have access to the "dark web" they can already do anything that requires age verification there. In the same way you expect that the rule to "not sell UUIDs" wouldn't be respected there, I wouldn't expect other age-verification rules to be respected, no matter the verification method.
      - inigyou 3mo ago
        Well, it's rather harder to sell bottles of beer on the dark web than short text strings.
        bilkow 3mo ago
        That is true, it is harder, although AFAIK people do sell all kinds of illegal things there.
    - anigbrowl 3mo ago
      Why buy a UUID when you can just get porn on the dark web
- palata 3mo ago
  Let's try it. If it doesn't help the kids, we can remove it I guess. Anything that doesn't accept this limitation becomes dystopian. The only viable age verification system is one that cannot be 100% effective, period.

CPLX 3mo ago

Why should you pay for an internet connection, or a computing device with a screen? This isn't a serious counterargument.

fluoridation 3mo ago
Because those things cost money to make and to maintain, whereas there's no intrinsic cost to prove one is an adult.
- CPLX 3mo ago
  Yes there is. You need to pay for a drivers license or a passport and so on. So there is an intrinsic cost to prove who you are where you are from and what your birthday is already. You have to pay for all sorts of small things to participate in normal society. This isn't a serious criticism. By definition this is not a life critical thing, it's something that is procured in order to access specific services on the internet, which is not free.
  - fluoridation 3mo ago
    >You need to pay for a drivers license or a passport and so on. I have a government ID and I didn't pay for it. I can use it to travel to nearby countries in lieu of a passport. The assumption that IDs are necessarily non-free (to the issuee) is pretty funny to me. >it's something that is procured in order to access specific services on the internet, which is not free. The maintenance of the Internet is already paid for through ISP contracts.
    - CPLX 3mo ago
      I mean, if you really want to make the government subsidize an ID verification scheme or mandate that certain real-world locations provide age verification as a social service for everyone, that's fine. It's orthogonal to the discussion, though, which is about whether we should do it or not, because the costs here aren't significant and don't change the terms of the debate.

sdeframond 3mo ago

> I bet a lot of parents would buy them for their kids. That changes the default from "anyone can do anything" to "gotta ask parents". Defaults matter at scale. It adds friction.

drdexebtjl 3mo ago

> I bet a lot of parents would buy them for their kids. Good. I should be able to make judgement calls about what my children can or can’t access outside of school. It’s better if they do it under my supervision than against my back, aided by a predator whose only moat is lending their ID, or their face.