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High graduation rates are an important metric to administrators. If a professor gave a failing grade to 1/3 of the class they would be in hot water.

collabs 3mo ago
> High graduation rates are an important metric to administrators. If a professor gave a failing grade to 1/3 of the class they would be in hot water. I remember practically every single instructor/professor on the first day of class during my freshman year of my undergraduate study said something along the lines of "I have no curves. Your grades depend on you and nobody else. If the whole class does well, everyone can get an A. If nobody does well, everybody can fail." So I guess this was more motivational to get us to study rather than stating facts?
- labcomputer 3mo ago
  It really depends on what kind of class it is, but at most schools: * If 1/3 of calculus physics for engineers fail, they take it next semester. * If 1/3 of gen-ed physics for poets fail, the professor better have a good explanation for the provost. * If 1/3 of physics for pre-meds fail, the professor better have a pretty good home security system and might want to think about having the family stay in a hotel for a few weeks.
stockresearcher 3mo ago
My wife has a civil engineering degree. There were a number of courses where partial credit was not permitted and the final exam was 2 questions. It was common for students to take those courses 3 or 4 times before passing. Giving a failing grade to only 1/3 of the class might get a professor investigated for making the class too easy.
- fn-mote 3mo ago
  What decade and country? In the US, this would be a huge outlier. Unless, somehow this is part of an advanced certification process? I really can’t imagine professionals not knowing how to study for an exam like this. Medical school shows what motivated people can do.
  - stockresearcher 3mo ago
    In America, dude. Pick your favorite engineering school and read syllabi for core classes such as statics. Read department policies on number of tries you get on core classes before you’re kicked out of the civil engineering program. They take certain things very seriously.
- lotsofpulp 3mo ago
  The incentives change when the school becomes a mechanism to sell a chance to increase probability of immigration rights at tens of thousands of dollars per year, especially when the pool of domestic kids is shrinking.
andrecarini 3mo ago
Failing 1/3 of a class if that cohort is genuinely deemed not qualified enough to pass shouldn't be a problem by itself. But then it raises questions like "are they really unqualified or is the testing methodology inadequate?" and "why was the system unable to provide the necessary growth to such a high slice of the class?". And then the easy way out is to just cherry-pick which students enter the system at all.
lo_zamoyski 3mo ago
That depends. Some schools actually cap the number of students permitted to continue. They fail a certain fixed number or percentage of students below a threshold, even if the raw score is good.
falcor84 3mo ago
I remember a first lecture when I started my CS studies, where the professor said something like "look at the people to your left and to your right, it's likely that at least one of you will drop out by the end of this year; it's ok, this is not for everyone; if you truly believe this is for you, put in the effort and you'll make it"
WalterBright 3mo ago
Caltech did not grade on a curve. I recall one class were half the class failed.
- chasd00 3mo ago
  I’ve had classes like that or ones that start with 75 students and end with 5 and I went to a very easy state school (late 90s)
subtextminer 3mo ago
1/3 isn't that bad in the late 80s/early 90s at the UT Austin CS department. Only ~30% graduated at the time. The orientation was literally "look to your left and looked to your right only one of you will graduate." They weren't joking!

collabs 3mo ago

> High graduation rates are an important metric to administrators. If a professor gave a failing grade to 1/3 of the class they would be in hot water. I remember practically every single instructor/professor on the first day of class during my freshman year of my undergraduate study said something along the lines of "I have no curves. Your grades depend on you and nobody else. If the whole class does well, everyone can get an A. If nobody does well, everybody can fail." So I guess this was more motivational to get us to study rather than stating facts?

labcomputer 3mo ago
It really depends on what kind of class it is, but at most schools: * If 1/3 of calculus physics for engineers fail, they take it next semester. * If 1/3 of gen-ed physics for poets fail, the professor better have a good explanation for the provost. * If 1/3 of physics for pre-meds fail, the professor better have a pretty good home security system and might want to think about having the family stay in a hotel for a few weeks.

stockresearcher 3mo ago

My wife has a civil engineering degree. There were a number of courses where partial credit was not permitted and the final exam was 2 questions. It was common for students to take those courses 3 or 4 times before passing. Giving a failing grade to only 1/3 of the class might get a professor investigated for making the class too easy.

fn-mote 3mo ago
What decade and country? In the US, this would be a huge outlier. Unless, somehow this is part of an advanced certification process? I really can’t imagine professionals not knowing how to study for an exam like this. Medical school shows what motivated people can do.
- stockresearcher 3mo ago
  In America, dude. Pick your favorite engineering school and read syllabi for core classes such as statics. Read department policies on number of tries you get on core classes before you’re kicked out of the civil engineering program. They take certain things very seriously.
lotsofpulp 3mo ago
The incentives change when the school becomes a mechanism to sell a chance to increase probability of immigration rights at tens of thousands of dollars per year, especially when the pool of domestic kids is shrinking.

andrecarini 3mo ago

Failing 1/3 of a class if that cohort is genuinely deemed not qualified enough to pass shouldn't be a problem by itself. But then it raises questions like "are they really unqualified or is the testing methodology inadequate?" and "why was the system unable to provide the necessary growth to such a high slice of the class?". And then the easy way out is to just cherry-pick which students enter the system at all.

lo_zamoyski 3mo ago

That depends. Some schools actually cap the number of students permitted to continue. They fail a certain fixed number or percentage of students below a threshold, even if the raw score is good.

falcor84 3mo ago

I remember a first lecture when I started my CS studies, where the professor said something like "look at the people to your left and to your right, it's likely that at least one of you will drop out by the end of this year; it's ok, this is not for everyone; if you truly believe this is for you, put in the effort and you'll make it"

WalterBright 3mo ago

Caltech did not grade on a curve. I recall one class were half the class failed.

chasd00 3mo ago
I’ve had classes like that or ones that start with 75 students and end with 5 and I went to a very easy state school (late 90s)

subtextminer 3mo ago

1/3 isn't that bad in the late 80s/early 90s at the UT Austin CS department. Only ~30% graduated at the time. The orientation was literally "look to your left and looked to your right only one of you will graduate." They weren't joking!