7 ms·

"You're partly making your decision based on who someone was as a 17 year old." Sure, but IQ tests show a high degree of stability over a person's life. It's n

"You're partly making your decision based on who someone was as a 17 year old." Sure, but IQ tests show a high degree of stability over a person's life. It's not unreasonable to be interested in it for sorting.

janalsncm 3mo ago
Can you say the same for SAT tests, where the score is best of N and N is however many the person can afford and varies between candidates?
- EgregiousCube 3mo ago
  Yes; though SAT is less prep-resistant and it'd be smart to apply a "+/- 100pts" fuzz to a score.
- z2 3mo ago
  And the meaning of the score changes over the years based on the test itself changing. Same goes for the company's GPA requirements where there have clearly been shifts across schools on the amount of grade inflation allowed or even encouraged. As an aside, I'm not sure if I or the College Board can prove my score at this point.
- Hax0r778 3mo ago
  Not only that, but the SAT is not an IQ test and you can definitely study for it. Students with wealthy or motivated parents can get study books or tutors which makes a huge difference in score. The Princeton Review promises a 200 point score improvement with some of their packages. And they can fairly-reliably achieve it too.
  - consensus1 3mo ago
    And I guarantee you that claim is based on an intentionally flawed experiment where they take students who have never seen the test before vs after completing the program. The actual control should be against students who have taken a couple of cheaply available practice tests.
  - aidenn0 3mo ago
    You can study for most IQ tests as well.
prpl 3mo ago
SAT isn’t an IQ test, and probably all sorts of people took it before they had cultural awareness or a diagnosis that would have lead to different testing conditions had it been taken after diagnosis, let alone the fact that test scores are not comparable. GPAs similarly not comparable over large time ranges, schools, or degrees without normalization you can’t get.
- porridgeraisin 3mo ago
  While edge cases may exist, for the most part, a test score / GPA / anything where the numerator is almost as big as the denominator is a good signal.
- spullara 3mo ago
  SAT isn't an IQ test but IQ is very correlated with SAT scores.
- patmcc 3mo ago
  SAT isn't a perfect IQ test but it's not bad for a first-pass filter. Nearly all who scored 1600 will be bright and nearly all who score 800 won't be. It's a bit like BMI. Yes, if you're Peter Dinklage or Arnold Schwarzenegger it will be pretty meaningless. But most people aren't and BMI works pretty well for them.
quux0r 3mo ago
I dislike this argument. I think in some dimensions these types of tests can work, but I’ve never been the type of person who’s been able to score well, and I don’t test particularly well in general, yet I did my PhD work at <IVY LEAGUE> and have had a great career despite this. I think that testing is good for people who can be adequately evaluated, but for people like me it just leads to a lifetime of feeling like something’s wrong with you.
- beambot 3mo ago
  Test-taking may only roughly correlate to intelligence, and is just one dimension of a human... but they likely care less about false negatives (like you) than they do about false positives in alternative assessments.
nephihaha 3mo ago
I can't speak for others here and we don't have SATs in this country, but these things can be very unfair. When I was seventeen, I had a lot of things to deal with which were not of my own making, such as caring for a terminally ill relative and wondering if I would even have a roof over my head a few months down the line. That kind of thing tends to take your mind off school work. Several years later and I was in a much better place. I think it's fair enough to say teenagers in general have more instability in their life even without this.
- sokoloff 3mo ago
  If you think it matters (I don’t) and think you scored unfairly low at 17, you can take (or retake) the SAT at any age.
  - nephihaha 3mo ago
    We don't have SATs in this country (like I said). Yes, we can retake the equivalent here, but retaken exams are valued less by both employers and universities. I spent much of that period visiting hospices and hospitals, and eventually ending up homeless for a while as a result of all this. I was more interested in being able to support myself financially for the next few years, and recovering psychologically. My qualifications after this consisted of diplomas and degrees.
sdevonoes 3mo ago
I never done an iq test, but just curious, can’t one simply “rehearse/study” for such tests? I dunno, let’s say you do a few past IQ tests (with answers available), I guess one could get a higher score just by doing that
- LPisGood 3mo ago
  You can. IQ scores are not stable throughout one’s life.

janalsncm 3mo ago

Can you say the same for SAT tests, where the score is best of N and N is however many the person can afford and varies between candidates?

EgregiousCube 3mo ago
Yes; though SAT is less prep-resistant and it'd be smart to apply a "+/- 100pts" fuzz to a score.
z2 3mo ago
And the meaning of the score changes over the years based on the test itself changing. Same goes for the company's GPA requirements where there have clearly been shifts across schools on the amount of grade inflation allowed or even encouraged. As an aside, I'm not sure if I or the College Board can prove my score at this point.
Hax0r778 3mo ago
Not only that, but the SAT is not an IQ test and you can definitely study for it. Students with wealthy or motivated parents can get study books or tutors which makes a huge difference in score. The Princeton Review promises a 200 point score improvement with some of their packages. And they can fairly-reliably achieve it too.
- consensus1 3mo ago
  And I guarantee you that claim is based on an intentionally flawed experiment where they take students who have never seen the test before vs after completing the program. The actual control should be against students who have taken a couple of cheaply available practice tests.
- aidenn0 3mo ago
  You can study for most IQ tests as well.

prpl 3mo ago

SAT isn’t an IQ test, and probably all sorts of people took it before they had cultural awareness or a diagnosis that would have lead to different testing conditions had it been taken after diagnosis, let alone the fact that test scores are not comparable. GPAs similarly not comparable over large time ranges, schools, or degrees without normalization you can’t get.

porridgeraisin 3mo ago
While edge cases may exist, for the most part, a test score / GPA / anything where the numerator is almost as big as the denominator is a good signal.
spullara 3mo ago
SAT isn't an IQ test but IQ is very correlated with SAT scores.
patmcc 3mo ago
SAT isn't a perfect IQ test but it's not bad for a first-pass filter. Nearly all who scored 1600 will be bright and nearly all who score 800 won't be. It's a bit like BMI. Yes, if you're Peter Dinklage or Arnold Schwarzenegger it will be pretty meaningless. But most people aren't and BMI works pretty well for them.

quux0r 3mo ago

I dislike this argument. I think in some dimensions these types of tests can work, but I’ve never been the type of person who’s been able to score well, and I don’t test particularly well in general, yet I did my PhD work at <IVY LEAGUE> and have had a great career despite this. I think that testing is good for people who can be adequately evaluated, but for people like me it just leads to a lifetime of feeling like something’s wrong with you.

beambot 3mo ago
Test-taking may only roughly correlate to intelligence, and is just one dimension of a human... but they likely care less about false negatives (like you) than they do about false positives in alternative assessments.

nephihaha 3mo ago

I can't speak for others here and we don't have SATs in this country, but these things can be very unfair. When I was seventeen, I had a lot of things to deal with which were not of my own making, such as caring for a terminally ill relative and wondering if I would even have a roof over my head a few months down the line. That kind of thing tends to take your mind off school work. Several years later and I was in a much better place. I think it's fair enough to say teenagers in general have more instability in their life even without this.

sokoloff 3mo ago
If you think it matters (I don’t) and think you scored unfairly low at 17, you can take (or retake) the SAT at any age.
- nephihaha 3mo ago
  We don't have SATs in this country (like I said). Yes, we can retake the equivalent here, but retaken exams are valued less by both employers and universities. I spent much of that period visiting hospices and hospitals, and eventually ending up homeless for a while as a result of all this. I was more interested in being able to support myself financially for the next few years, and recovering psychologically. My qualifications after this consisted of diplomas and degrees.

sdevonoes 3mo ago

I never done an iq test, but just curious, can’t one simply “rehearse/study” for such tests? I dunno, let’s say you do a few past IQ tests (with answers available), I guess one could get a higher score just by doing that

LPisGood 3mo ago
You can. IQ scores are not stable throughout one’s life.