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It's unfair to compare an idling deep sleep device with a cold boot. However, there is a shortcut: Just don't boot a full OS (thinking of custom firmware which

by ktpsns 3mo ago

It's unfair to compare an idling deep sleep device with a cold boot. However, there is a shortcut: Just don't boot a full OS (thinking of custom firmware which boots in fractions of seconds, standard in the Microcontroller world). Or boot an optimized Linux user space. I am confident with a bit fiddling one can bring down a standard SBC Linux to a few seconds from cold to ready.

DrewADesign 3mo ago
Functional comparisons among devices within a category are always fair. Pointing out a device’s perceived shortcomings is not an attack on the people that made it. One crucial role designers play (ideally) in product development is seeking out honest feedback, filtering it, and figuring out if that feedback can help make the product better for end users. The FOSS landscape needs a lot more of that.
- saltmate 3mo ago
  > Functional comparisons among devices within a category are always fair When they have the same prerequisites, yes. But then you need to count in the time the iPhone needs to boot as well, which will probably mean you are at a similar range.
  - DrewADesign 3mo ago
    Ok, now read the other three sentences that explain why I said that.
  - Fwirt 3mo ago
    No, because the criteria here is state transition from not-in-use/power saving to in-use/"on". The Pi Zero has no meaningful sleep state, as I lamented above, thus the only valid "off-on" state transition for the Optocam Zero is a full boot. Sure, if you were to leave it on in your bag then there's no boot time, but then you're limited to 70-80 minutes of runtime. Then you get "instant-on", but you're limited to the photos you can take within an hour off the charger, which also renders it useless as a camera, and compares unfavorably to the iPhone . If it had a sleep state then we could compare apples to apples. Since the iPhone's default "off" state is sleep, that's what counts for "turning it on".
    - DrewADesign 3mo ago
      You don’t even need to technically justify the comparison. Apples and oranges can be compared if you’re discussing how useful each is for a particular purpose or in a particular context. Oranges are nice because the skin proffers protection from soil and bumps during travel. Apples are nice because you don’t have to peel them or deal with sections — you just bite hunks off of it. If you’re not throwing it in your bag, the shortcomings of the Apple might be totally irrelevant. If you’re going on a picnic, the convenience of the Apple might be less important. Similarly, it wouldn’t make much sense to abstractly compare whether moving trucks or motorcycles are better. It makes complete sense to say one has better cargo capacity, and one is way more fun to operate.
alterom 3mo ago
>It's unfair to compare an idling deep sleep device with a cold boot. Sure. My Fuji X100 is ready to shoot in about a second after a battery swap.
schrijver 3mo ago
You turn a dedicated camera on as you grab it, cold boot, and most of them will be functional before you manage to put your eye to the visor.

by ktpsns 3mo ago

DrewADesign 3mo ago

Functional comparisons among devices within a category are always fair. Pointing out a device’s perceived shortcomings is not an attack on the people that made it. One crucial role designers play (ideally) in product development is seeking out honest feedback, filtering it, and figuring out if that feedback can help make the product better for end users. The FOSS landscape needs a lot more of that.

saltmate 3mo ago
> Functional comparisons among devices within a category are always fair When they have the same prerequisites, yes. But then you need to count in the time the iPhone needs to boot as well, which will probably mean you are at a similar range.
- DrewADesign 3mo ago
  Ok, now read the other three sentences that explain why I said that.
- Fwirt 3mo ago
  No, because the criteria here is state transition from not-in-use/power saving to in-use/"on". The Pi Zero has no meaningful sleep state, as I lamented above, thus the only valid "off-on" state transition for the Optocam Zero is a full boot. Sure, if you were to leave it on in your bag then there's no boot time, but then you're limited to 70-80 minutes of runtime. Then you get "instant-on", but you're limited to the photos you can take within an hour off the charger, which also renders it useless as a camera, and compares unfavorably to the iPhone . If it had a sleep state then we could compare apples to apples. Since the iPhone's default "off" state is sleep, that's what counts for "turning it on".
  - DrewADesign 3mo ago
    You don’t even need to technically justify the comparison. Apples and oranges can be compared if you’re discussing how useful each is for a particular purpose or in a particular context. Oranges are nice because the skin proffers protection from soil and bumps during travel. Apples are nice because you don’t have to peel them or deal with sections — you just bite hunks off of it. If you’re not throwing it in your bag, the shortcomings of the Apple might be totally irrelevant. If you’re going on a picnic, the convenience of the Apple might be less important. Similarly, it wouldn’t make much sense to abstractly compare whether moving trucks or motorcycles are better. It makes complete sense to say one has better cargo capacity, and one is way more fun to operate.

alterom 3mo ago

>It's unfair to compare an idling deep sleep device with a cold boot. Sure. My Fuji X100 is ready to shoot in about a second after a battery swap.

schrijver 3mo ago

You turn a dedicated camera on as you grab it, cold boot, and most of them will be functional before you manage to put your eye to the visor.