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Except everyone who has tried to argue that in court has lost.

by ralph84 3mo ago

jagged-chisel 3mo ago
Has this been argued? I'd love to read some actual court decisions.
- akramachamarei 3mo ago
  Here are some cases (mined from Wikipedia sources): Tremblay v. OpenAI, Inc., No. 3:23-cv-03223 (N.D. Cal.) (https://dockets.justia.com/docket/california/candce/3:2023cv03223/414822 https://dockets.justia.com/docket/california/candce/3:2023cv...) Andersen v. Stability AI Ltd., No. 3:23-cv-00201 (N.D. Cal.) (https://law.justia.com/cases/federal/district-courts/california/candce/3:2023cv00201/407208/223/ https://law.justia.com/cases/federal/district-courts/califor...) Authors Guild v. OpenAI, Inc., No. 1:23-cv-08292 (S.D.N.Y.) (https://law.justia.com/cases/federal/district-courts/new-york/nysdce/1:2023cv08292/606655/100/ https://law.justia.com/cases/federal/district-courts/new-yor...) Getty Images (US), Inc. v. Stability AI, Inc., No. 1:23-cv-00135 (D. Del.) (https://dockets.justia.com/docket/delaware/dedce/1:2023cv00135/81407 https://dockets.justia.com/docket/delaware/dedce/1:2023cv001...) The New York Times Co. v. Microsoft Corp., No. 1:23-cv-11195 (S.D.N.Y.) (https://law.justia.com/cases/federal/district-courts/new-york/nysdce/1:2023cv11195/612697/514/ https://law.justia.com/cases/federal/district-courts/new-yor...) Richard Kadrey et al. v. Meta (https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/25984135-richard-kadrey-et-al-v-meta-partial-summary-judgment/ https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/25984135-richard-kad...) Bartz v. Anthropic (https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/25982181-authors-v-anthropic-ruling/ https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/25982181-authors-v-a...) --- Further reading: "Generative AI Systems Tee Up Fair Use Fight" (Feb 2024) https://natlawreview.com/article/generative-ai-systems-tee-fair-use-fight https://natlawreview.com/article/generative-ai-systems-tee-f... "Meta’s AI copyright win comes with a warning about fair use The federal judge who ruled in Meta’s favor still isn’t convinced its use of copyrighted materials for AI training qualifies as fair use." (Jan 2025) https://www.theverge.com/news/693437/meta-ai-copyright-win-fair-use-warning https://www.theverge.com/news/693437/meta-ai-copyright-win-f... "Anthropic wins a major fair use victory for AI — but it’s still in trouble for stealing books Judge William Alsup determined that Anthropic training its AI models on purchased copies of books is fair use." (Jun 2025) https://www.theverge.com/news/692015/anthropic-wins-a-major-fair-use-victory-for-ai-but-its-still-in-trouble-for-stealing-books https://www.theverge.com/news/692015/anthropic-wins-a-major-... "Copyright Office Weighs in on AI and Fair Use Amid Major Leadership Shakeup" (May 2025) https://ipwatchdog.com/2025/05/12/copyright-office-weighs-ai-fair-use-amidst-major-leadership-shakeup/# https://ipwatchdog.com/2025/05/12/copyright-office-weighs-ai...
  - AnimalMuppet 3mo ago
    I respect Alsup on tech issues. But aren't all of these initial decisions? That is, I don't expect that this is decided until there's a Supreme Court decision. There's still two levels of appeal to go before we get there.
    - akramachamarei 3mo ago
      I guess that depends on whether these cases are being appealed or if there is a "circuit split." Which is to say, those are the conditions I'm aware of under which a lower court decision does not constitute a decision decision. As always, IANAL, but I do listen to their podcasts often (IANALBIDLTTPO)
    - qingcharles 3mo ago
      Certainly the first five above all look to be trial court decisions which generally aren't citable law, but can be informative. It will almost certainly get to the Supreme Court at some point, it's too big an issue; until then we'll (probably) have a couple of different appellate court opinions to wait for.

Except everyone who has tried to argue that in court has lost.

by ralph84 3mo ago

Except everyone who has tried to argue that in court has lost.

jagged-chisel 3mo ago

Has this been argued? I'd love to read some actual court decisions.

akramachamarei 3mo ago
Here are some cases (mined from Wikipedia sources): Tremblay v. OpenAI, Inc., No. 3:23-cv-03223 (N.D. Cal.) (https://dockets.justia.com/docket/california/candce/3:2023cv03223/414822 https://dockets.justia.com/docket/california/candce/3:2023cv...) Andersen v. Stability AI Ltd., No. 3:23-cv-00201 (N.D. Cal.) (https://law.justia.com/cases/federal/district-courts/california/candce/3:2023cv00201/407208/223/ https://law.justia.com/cases/federal/district-courts/califor...) Authors Guild v. OpenAI, Inc., No. 1:23-cv-08292 (S.D.N.Y.) (https://law.justia.com/cases/federal/district-courts/new-york/nysdce/1:2023cv08292/606655/100/ https://law.justia.com/cases/federal/district-courts/new-yor...) Getty Images (US), Inc. v. Stability AI, Inc., No. 1:23-cv-00135 (D. Del.) (https://dockets.justia.com/docket/delaware/dedce/1:2023cv00135/81407 https://dockets.justia.com/docket/delaware/dedce/1:2023cv001...) The New York Times Co. v. Microsoft Corp., No. 1:23-cv-11195 (S.D.N.Y.) (https://law.justia.com/cases/federal/district-courts/new-york/nysdce/1:2023cv11195/612697/514/ https://law.justia.com/cases/federal/district-courts/new-yor...) Richard Kadrey et al. v. Meta (https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/25984135-richard-kadrey-et-al-v-meta-partial-summary-judgment/ https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/25984135-richard-kad...) Bartz v. Anthropic (https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/25982181-authors-v-anthropic-ruling/ https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/25982181-authors-v-a...) --- Further reading: "Generative AI Systems Tee Up Fair Use Fight" (Feb 2024) https://natlawreview.com/article/generative-ai-systems-tee-fair-use-fight https://natlawreview.com/article/generative-ai-systems-tee-f... "Meta’s AI copyright win comes with a warning about fair use The federal judge who ruled in Meta’s favor still isn’t convinced its use of copyrighted materials for AI training qualifies as fair use." (Jan 2025) https://www.theverge.com/news/693437/meta-ai-copyright-win-fair-use-warning https://www.theverge.com/news/693437/meta-ai-copyright-win-f... "Anthropic wins a major fair use victory for AI — but it’s still in trouble for stealing books Judge William Alsup determined that Anthropic training its AI models on purchased copies of books is fair use." (Jun 2025) https://www.theverge.com/news/692015/anthropic-wins-a-major-fair-use-victory-for-ai-but-its-still-in-trouble-for-stealing-books https://www.theverge.com/news/692015/anthropic-wins-a-major-... "Copyright Office Weighs in on AI and Fair Use Amid Major Leadership Shakeup" (May 2025) https://ipwatchdog.com/2025/05/12/copyright-office-weighs-ai-fair-use-amidst-major-leadership-shakeup/# https://ipwatchdog.com/2025/05/12/copyright-office-weighs-ai...
- AnimalMuppet 3mo ago
  I respect Alsup on tech issues. But aren't all of these initial decisions? That is, I don't expect that this is decided until there's a Supreme Court decision. There's still two levels of appeal to go before we get there.
  - akramachamarei 3mo ago
    I guess that depends on whether these cases are being appealed or if there is a "circuit split." Which is to say, those are the conditions I'm aware of under which a lower court decision does not constitute a decision decision. As always, IANAL, but I do listen to their podcasts often (IANALBIDLTTPO)
  - qingcharles 3mo ago
    Certainly the first five above all look to be trial court decisions which generally aren't citable law, but can be informative. It will almost certainly get to the Supreme Court at some point, it's too big an issue; until then we'll (probably) have a couple of different appellate court opinions to wait for.