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> The reply I received a few days later did me the favour of putting the violation on the record. Their position, in their own words, was that "in order to rece

> The reply I received a few days later did me the favour of putting the violation on the record. Their position, in their own words, was that "in order to receive marketing / offers, it is a condition to be a member of the customer club." That one sentence is the whole case. They had taken a right I am entitled to exercise for free and turned it into the price of admission. I don’t understand… it would be one thing if it said “receiving marketing/offers is a condition of being a member of the customer club” but that’s not what is being stated above… rather that being a member of the club is required to receive marketing — perhaps something has been misworded or lost in translation?

LearnYouALisp 3mo ago
sounded exactly like translation error from a German-related lang. e.g. "to receive offers...is a condition to be in..."
drdaeman 3mo ago
Yea, I don't get it either. Receiving being a condition on membership means (in my understanding) only that non-members can't (shouldn't) receive anything, not that members will or must receive something. Which sounds perfectly normal and sane to me.
mixdup 3mo ago
I think the "marketing/offers" means discounts? To be eligible for the discounts or special offers, you have to be a member of the club, and if you are a member of the club you have to be willing to receive the email messages, and somehow under EU law you're entitled to all discounts I guess?
- gruelsandwich 3mo ago
  Even if you opt out of marketing emails, they can still collect information about you, which is useful
- subscribed 3mo ago
  That's pretty disingenuous thing to say. The company was also processing, transferring and selling private data without doing as much as informing their customers. It's perfectly possible to offer discounts to customers without egregious violations of law and privacy.
ajb 3mo ago
Yeah sounds like it's backwards , and should be "in order to be a member of the customer club, it is a condition to receive marketing / offers ."
- drnick1 3mo ago
  Yes this is the logical sentence order, at least in English.
  - thaumasiotes 3mo ago
    No, the sentence order has nothing to do with it. "It is a condition to be a member of the club (in order) to receive marketing offers" and "In order to receive marketing offers, it is a condition to be a member of the club" mean the same thing. The problem is that the explicit markers of purpose ("in order to...") and requirement ("condition") appear to have been applied to the wrong things. If you rearrange them, they'll still be applied to the wrong things.
cm2012 3mo ago
He was an Elkjøp/Elgiganten customer club member. He wanted to keep the club membership and discounts/offers, but stop the marketing emails. Elkjøp’s setup told him the only way to stop the marketing was to cancel the club membership altogether. To me, Elkjop seems perfectly reasonable here. But EU policy disagrees.
- thaumasiotes 3mo ago
  According to the article, that is not what Elkjøp told him. You're making the assumption that what the article says must make sense, which is unfounded.
  - buzer 3mo ago
    While we cannot be sure what Elkjøp exactly told him, the Norwegian DPA's findings included following: * Published benefits: https://web.archive.org/web/20220613175535/https:/www.elkjop.no/kundeklubb/ https://web.archive.org/web/20220613175535/https:/www.elkjop... (e.g. "Rabatt på en rekke av våre tjenester utført i varehus", i.e. something like "Discount on a number of our services performed in warehouses") * Conditions to join, i.e. to receive the benefits (DPA's translation): * You may be contacted electronically (e.g via SMS and e-mail), via phone and mail with personal offers and other relevant information * Collect and analyse information about you and your customer relationship. * Create a customer profile, in order to provide more relevant information and a better service. * You have to be minimum 15 years old and you can choose to leave the customer club at any time. So to get the discount you would need to consent to being contacted for "personal offers and other relevant information".
    - AlexanderHanff 3mo ago
      Which is exactly the point - under Article 21 of the GDPR every person has a legal right not to be subjected to direct marketing so any forced direct marketing is unlawful and consent cannot be bundled (it must be specific under the GDPR) so bundling consent to direct marketing along with consent to join the Club is not lawful. Which is why my next step is litigation.
contubernio 3mo ago
Alternative approximate translation: while I urinate on you tell me it's raining.
AlexanderHanff 3mo ago
It is a translation thing - what they said in Norwegian was that it is required to accept marketing activities if you want to be part of the loyalty club - but the machine translation did it literally instead of changing the structure to match common English.
- em-bee 3mo ago
  can you fix it?
rpdillon 3mo ago
I actually stopped reading right there and came to the comments because I was really confused.

LearnYouALisp 3mo ago

sounded exactly like translation error from a German-related lang. e.g. "to receive offers...is a condition to be in..."

drdaeman 3mo ago

Yea, I don't get it either. Receiving being a condition on membership means (in my understanding) only that non-members can't (shouldn't) receive anything, not that members will or must receive something. Which sounds perfectly normal and sane to me.

mixdup 3mo ago

I think the "marketing/offers" means discounts? To be eligible for the discounts or special offers, you have to be a member of the club, and if you are a member of the club you have to be willing to receive the email messages, and somehow under EU law you're entitled to all discounts I guess?

gruelsandwich 3mo ago
Even if you opt out of marketing emails, they can still collect information about you, which is useful
subscribed 3mo ago
That's pretty disingenuous thing to say. The company was also processing, transferring and selling private data without doing as much as informing their customers. It's perfectly possible to offer discounts to customers without egregious violations of law and privacy.

ajb 3mo ago

Yeah sounds like it's backwards , and should be "in order to be a member of the customer club, it is a condition to receive marketing / offers ."

drnick1 3mo ago
Yes this is the logical sentence order, at least in English.
- thaumasiotes 3mo ago
  No, the sentence order has nothing to do with it. "It is a condition to be a member of the club (in order) to receive marketing offers" and "In order to receive marketing offers, it is a condition to be a member of the club" mean the same thing. The problem is that the explicit markers of purpose ("in order to...") and requirement ("condition") appear to have been applied to the wrong things. If you rearrange them, they'll still be applied to the wrong things.

cm2012 3mo ago

He was an Elkjøp/Elgiganten customer club member. He wanted to keep the club membership and discounts/offers, but stop the marketing emails. Elkjøp’s setup told him the only way to stop the marketing was to cancel the club membership altogether. To me, Elkjop seems perfectly reasonable here. But EU policy disagrees.

thaumasiotes 3mo ago
According to the article, that is not what Elkjøp told him. You're making the assumption that what the article says must make sense, which is unfounded.
- buzer 3mo ago
  While we cannot be sure what Elkjøp exactly told him, the Norwegian DPA's findings included following: * Published benefits: https://web.archive.org/web/20220613175535/https:/www.elkjop.no/kundeklubb/ https://web.archive.org/web/20220613175535/https:/www.elkjop... (e.g. "Rabatt på en rekke av våre tjenester utført i varehus", i.e. something like "Discount on a number of our services performed in warehouses") * Conditions to join, i.e. to receive the benefits (DPA's translation): * You may be contacted electronically (e.g via SMS and e-mail), via phone and mail with personal offers and other relevant information * Collect and analyse information about you and your customer relationship. * Create a customer profile, in order to provide more relevant information and a better service. * You have to be minimum 15 years old and you can choose to leave the customer club at any time. So to get the discount you would need to consent to being contacted for "personal offers and other relevant information".
  - AlexanderHanff 3mo ago
    Which is exactly the point - under Article 21 of the GDPR every person has a legal right not to be subjected to direct marketing so any forced direct marketing is unlawful and consent cannot be bundled (it must be specific under the GDPR) so bundling consent to direct marketing along with consent to join the Club is not lawful. Which is why my next step is litigation.

contubernio 3mo ago

Alternative approximate translation: while I urinate on you tell me it's raining.

AlexanderHanff 3mo ago

It is a translation thing - what they said in Norwegian was that it is required to accept marketing activities if you want to be part of the loyalty club - but the machine translation did it literally instead of changing the structure to match common English.

em-bee 3mo ago
can you fix it?

rpdillon 3mo ago

I actually stopped reading right there and came to the comments because I was really confused.