11 ms·

Please share “better father” books.

by rfc3092 3mo ago

AnimalMuppet 3mo ago
Here's the problem: You can be a bad father by being too strict, or you can be a bad father by being too lenient. In Zion National Park there's a hike called Angel's Landing. You wind up on this ridge, with a 1000 foot cliff on one side and a 500 foot cliff on the other side. And the ridge is not very wide - only a couple of feet in some places. Parenting is like that. You think, oh, I see people causing problems by being too strict, so I want to back away from that cliff. But there's a cliff behind you, so don't back too far... And the problem with parenting books is that, if you're the kind of parent who needs the books warning you about being too strict, then the books that warn against being too lenient are probably the ones that resonate more with you. That is, you're drawn to the ones you don't need, not to the ones that you do need. All that said, yes, get books and read them. Be sure to get a variety of them. I can't give specifics off the cuff, as I'm well past that phase now.
- digitaltrees 3mo ago
  Totally agree especially since each kid is different and responds to the same technique differently. But there are common things like attachment theory, boundaries creating safety, the tactics of repair after conflict.
- frankosaurus 3mo ago
  Well stated. I read Nurture Shock before my kids were born. One of its main arguments is to praise effort rather than natural abilities ("you worked hard" rather than "you're smart"). Being one who naturally withholds praise, its message of not over-praising resonated with me. In retrospect, I should have praised kid #1 more. It took me 10+ years to realize that. The book was not wrong but also not the message I needed.
  - digitaltrees 3mo ago
    I am definitely of the same generation. I notice my mom will praise my kid’s intelligence while we praise their effort. But I’ve definitely noticed my son responds to praise about ability more than my daughter and likely would appreciate more praise than her. What did you notice and what were the consequences of the strategy of praise. I’d like to learn from your experience.
    - genxy 3mo ago
      I really enjoyed this 'Newel of Knowledge' video on how to deliver praise w/o triggering someones BS detector https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C-ZE601hf28 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C-ZE601hf28 tl;dw celebrate don't manipulate. I have noticed that my daughter responds so much better to compliments like, "I am really impressed how you handled situation X, you stuck up for yourself in a way that doesn't alienate yourself with your friends. I know how hard that is to do well ..." When I give the reason for the praise it doesn't come off, intended or not as "you did good for a kid." I don't do it everytime, but sometimes the praise works to give another reflective or metacognitive pass over the event.
    - frankosaurus 3mo ago
      Praise is a verbal activity. And while words definitely matter, I think holistic encouragement is needed. Pats on the back, hugs, and periodic ambient physical presence when the kid is working on a new skill. Children the Challenge chapter 3 discusses encouragement. All this stuff should be done tastefully and without being overbearing. Like the previous poster said, it's a balance.
sanswork 3mo ago
The self driven child was one I just finished 2 weeks ago that I really enjoyed and felt had a lot of good advice that ran counter to my natural tendencies. The How to talk books(there are a few of them for different ages), no drama discipline. Cal Newports books while not specifically about parenting have helped me with disconnecting more from my tech which has always been a challenge since it's my job and a part of a lot of my hobbies which has definitely led to being a better father.
- digitaltrees 3mo ago
  Thanks for the recs. I’ll check them out. I am reading “How to raise humans” right now. Not far enough in to have an opinion yet.
  - sanswork 3mo ago
    No worries, I have "Outdoor kids in an indoor world" next that I'm really looking forward to since I struggle with being an indoor dad despite being the type of kid that would leave the house in the morning on my bike and be back at night and went camping every couple weekends. I'll have a look at yours.
murkt 3mo ago
“Never Split the Difference”, which is a book about how to successfully communicate with terrorists. Very suitable for talking with kids! I’ve even read aloud a few chapters to my kids, because it’s very suitable for communication with parents as well
- Fantosism 3mo ago
  I mean this with the purest intentions. I've read Never Split the Difference, Never Eat Alone, Getting More, How to Win Friends and Influence People, etc. How do you get it to feel like it's not manipulation? I get all of these books advertise not to lie, but at the end of the day, I'm reshaping my speech to achieve a certain goal, rather than to convey facts. The best line I've come up with is something like: am I serving the other person's actual interests, and would I be fine with them seeing exactly what I'm doing? Honest persuasion seems to survive that test; manipulation usually needs the other person not to notice. Curious how you draw this line? Keep in mind I don't have kids, so haven't really ventured into white lie territory being a necessity.
  - digitaltrees 3mo ago
    I think you’re on the right track. Manipulation is overriding someone’s will in service of your motives. Persuasion is offering new information, while respecting their autonomy to make their own choice. So you are right that intention matters a lot. And the reason it matters is that your commitment to their wellbeing is an investment in the relationship which is a mutual interaction over time not a single event. That’s also why authenticity and honesty matter. If you lie to your children or spouse or colleague they might do what you want one time but over time not trust you. If you are inauthentic they will also learn that you have ulterior motives and become distrustful. The last thing I’ll say is it’s not always a negotiation. With young kids or direct reports there is elevation in the relationship, meaning one person gets to make the decision and the other gets to follow the instructions. So when a toddler is saying I don’t want to brush my teeth if you treat it like a negotiation you actually make them less secure about their place in the world because they aren’t ready to make every decision for themself. One good technique I learned is to simply present two choices. “You can brush your teeth or let me brush your teeth”. That’s very different than “let’s go brush your teeth” which can be answered yes or no. So it’s not always necessary to engage in persuasion. Sometimes framing is all you need.
monknomo 3mo ago
How to Talk so Kids Will Listen (and How to Listen so Kids Will Talk) is excellent

Please share “better father” books.

by rfc3092 3mo ago

Please share “better father” books.

Here's the problem: You can be a bad father by being too strict, or you can be a bad father by being too lenient. In Zion National Park there's a hike called Angel's Landing. You wind up on this ridge, with a 1000 foot cliff on one side and a 500 foot cliff on the other side. And the ridge is not very wide - only a couple of feet in some places. Parenting is like that. You think, oh, I see people causing problems by being too strict, so I want to back away from that cliff. But there's a cliff behind you, so don't back too far... And the problem with parenting books is that, if you're the kind of parent who needs the books warning you about being too strict, then the books that warn against being too lenient are probably the ones that resonate more with you. That is, you're drawn to the ones you don't need, not to the ones that you do need. All that said, yes, get books and read them. Be sure to get a variety of them. I can't give specifics off the cuff, as I'm well past that phase now.

digitaltrees 3mo ago
Totally agree especially since each kid is different and responds to the same technique differently. But there are common things like attachment theory, boundaries creating safety, the tactics of repair after conflict.
frankosaurus 3mo ago
Well stated. I read Nurture Shock before my kids were born. One of its main arguments is to praise effort rather than natural abilities ("you worked hard" rather than "you're smart"). Being one who naturally withholds praise, its message of not over-praising resonated with me. In retrospect, I should have praised kid #1 more. It took me 10+ years to realize that. The book was not wrong but also not the message I needed.
- digitaltrees 3mo ago
  I am definitely of the same generation. I notice my mom will praise my kid’s intelligence while we praise their effort. But I’ve definitely noticed my son responds to praise about ability more than my daughter and likely would appreciate more praise than her. What did you notice and what were the consequences of the strategy of praise. I’d like to learn from your experience.
  - genxy 3mo ago
    I really enjoyed this 'Newel of Knowledge' video on how to deliver praise w/o triggering someones BS detector https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C-ZE601hf28 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C-ZE601hf28 tl;dw celebrate don't manipulate. I have noticed that my daughter responds so much better to compliments like, "I am really impressed how you handled situation X, you stuck up for yourself in a way that doesn't alienate yourself with your friends. I know how hard that is to do well ..." When I give the reason for the praise it doesn't come off, intended or not as "you did good for a kid." I don't do it everytime, but sometimes the praise works to give another reflective or metacognitive pass over the event.
  - frankosaurus 3mo ago
    Praise is a verbal activity. And while words definitely matter, I think holistic encouragement is needed. Pats on the back, hugs, and periodic ambient physical presence when the kid is working on a new skill. Children the Challenge chapter 3 discusses encouragement. All this stuff should be done tastefully and without being overbearing. Like the previous poster said, it's a balance.

sanswork 3mo ago

The self driven child was one I just finished 2 weeks ago that I really enjoyed and felt had a lot of good advice that ran counter to my natural tendencies. The How to talk books(there are a few of them for different ages), no drama discipline. Cal Newports books while not specifically about parenting have helped me with disconnecting more from my tech which has always been a challenge since it's my job and a part of a lot of my hobbies which has definitely led to being a better father.

digitaltrees 3mo ago
Thanks for the recs. I’ll check them out. I am reading “How to raise humans” right now. Not far enough in to have an opinion yet.
- sanswork 3mo ago
  No worries, I have "Outdoor kids in an indoor world" next that I'm really looking forward to since I struggle with being an indoor dad despite being the type of kid that would leave the house in the morning on my bike and be back at night and went camping every couple weekends. I'll have a look at yours.

murkt 3mo ago

“Never Split the Difference”, which is a book about how to successfully communicate with terrorists. Very suitable for talking with kids! I’ve even read aloud a few chapters to my kids, because it’s very suitable for communication with parents as well

Fantosism 3mo ago
I mean this with the purest intentions. I've read Never Split the Difference, Never Eat Alone, Getting More, How to Win Friends and Influence People, etc. How do you get it to feel like it's not manipulation? I get all of these books advertise not to lie, but at the end of the day, I'm reshaping my speech to achieve a certain goal, rather than to convey facts. The best line I've come up with is something like: am I serving the other person's actual interests, and would I be fine with them seeing exactly what I'm doing? Honest persuasion seems to survive that test; manipulation usually needs the other person not to notice. Curious how you draw this line? Keep in mind I don't have kids, so haven't really ventured into white lie territory being a necessity.
- digitaltrees 3mo ago
  I think you’re on the right track. Manipulation is overriding someone’s will in service of your motives. Persuasion is offering new information, while respecting their autonomy to make their own choice. So you are right that intention matters a lot. And the reason it matters is that your commitment to their wellbeing is an investment in the relationship which is a mutual interaction over time not a single event. That’s also why authenticity and honesty matter. If you lie to your children or spouse or colleague they might do what you want one time but over time not trust you. If you are inauthentic they will also learn that you have ulterior motives and become distrustful. The last thing I’ll say is it’s not always a negotiation. With young kids or direct reports there is elevation in the relationship, meaning one person gets to make the decision and the other gets to follow the instructions. So when a toddler is saying I don’t want to brush my teeth if you treat it like a negotiation you actually make them less secure about their place in the world because they aren’t ready to make every decision for themself. One good technique I learned is to simply present two choices. “You can brush your teeth or let me brush your teeth”. That’s very different than “let’s go brush your teeth” which can be answered yes or no. So it’s not always necessary to engage in persuasion. Sometimes framing is all you need.

monknomo 3mo ago

How to Talk so Kids Will Listen (and How to Listen so Kids Will Talk) is excellent