7 ms·

headline makes it seem obvious who did it, but he didn't fall out of a window... so I'm going to wait for an investigation before I make up my mind

by 0x59 3mo ago

littlecranky67 3mo ago
Russian assassins on foreign soil are also known to shot people during the day in broad daylight, just as [0] did in 2019 in Berlin Tiergarten park. Unfortunately, he was exchanged and is living freely after only a few years in german prison. [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vadim_Krasikov https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vadim_Krasikov
- cubefox 3mo ago
  Prisoners exchanges should be illegal if the crimes are disproportionate as in this case.
  - FpUser 3mo ago
    I think saving one of your own who suffers because of protecting your country should take way more priority over simple vengeance.
    - cubefox 3mo ago
      It's not "simple vengeance". It's deterrence. If you don't punish assassins, assassinations will increase in expectation.
      - FpUser 3mo ago
        Bullshit. Who says anything about punishment. They are being punished, then there MAY come a choice. If you are so hell bent on "deterrence" look after presidential pardons. And if you do not save your own spies given a chance, the next one you want to hire will direct you straight to the place where the sun does not shine
        cubefox 3mo ago
        > If you are so hell bent on "deterrence" look after presidential pardons. Yes, those create awful incentives and should absolutely not be legal. > And if you do not save your own spies given a chance One should not exchange spies for the cost of increasing political assasinations. Same reason as why you shouldn't pay kidnappers.
        cindyllm 3mo ago
        [dead]
        FpUser 3mo ago
        >"One should not exchange spies for the cost of increasing political assasinations. Same reason as why you shouldn't pay kidnappers." I strongly disagree for it to be used as a general approach for either spies or kidnappers. And who says it is exactly the cost? It is all coulda shoulda woulda and depends upon the particular situation.
      - tim333 3mo ago
        There are other ways you can deter though. Like actions against the government responsible rather than the individual.
  - ogurechny 3mo ago
    International politics are fake. There is a gentleman's agreement that secret services can kill “traitors” and “enemies” anywhere as long as no one objects (or the objecting country is not important enough anyway). The hirelings get the fake documents that are perfectly known to the officials to be the token of non-diplomatic immunity, and also allow them to pretend they were once again fooled by the bad foreign state. In Skripal case, killers spent the day before waiting for some agents to appear at the location to tell them to go sightseeing somewhere else. Nothing happened = UK was OK with what they were doing. Only after the fact British officials started to create a scene, and what they were worried about most was the fact that Russian officials have sold the “special” passports to way too many “irrelevant” thugs and oligarchs who wanted to be untouchable when travelling abroad (hence the leak of the existence of those passports, and silent confirmation that they were respected by so-called free and lawful countries). You need to understand that those “above” are dumb bureaucrats playing dumb bureaucratic games. This is how societal selection works in current historical period. As for this case, Kadyrov (or his inner circle) is known to be emo about any critic, and has been successfully killing the Chechen refugees in Europe for decades now. Ukrainians also seem to operate freely, which is a bit ironic when you remember that Ukrainian agents were taught in the same secret military schools Russian agents graduated from, and that Ukrainian oligarchs have mansions on Côte d'Azur and similar places right next to mansions of Russian oligarchs. I sometimes worry about their travel logistics in such complex times. Poor creatures!
- Am4TIfIsER0ppos 3mo ago
  So who did the Germans get in exchange? Was it worth it like a basketball player for the Lord of War?
  - flohofwoe 3mo ago
    As for German citizens: a red cross employee, an immigration lawyer, a 'political scientist' and a tourist who apparently tried to smuggle six gummy bears coated with canabis oil into Russia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2024_Ankara_prisoner_exchange https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2024_Ankara_prisoner_exchange (also various US and UK citizens)
roenxi 3mo ago
The article also doesn't really outline anything that makes sense as a motive. I'd imagine there are a number of artists in Poland critical of ... pretty much anyone you care to name but especially the Russian leadership. Artists are hard to please. The article seems to be hinting this was a Russian or Belarusian assassination, which might be true. Sounds like someone assassinated him. But if so there is a big hole to fill in the story on what a plausible reason is. Based on this my first guess would be that something in his private life spilled over, but I expect there is a section of the story that isn't in the news right now. EDIT Also related only by the vaguest vibe, but https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WeiweiCam https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WeiweiCam is more what I'd expect for artistic dissidents and is truly remarkable modern art.
- Barbing 3mo ago
  Would it make sense to a government like that to assassinate one critic at random periodically just to keep fear high? RIP Edit: didn’t see him holding satirized pictures of that president, almost withdraw the question
  - roenxi 3mo ago
    No. And pretty obviously not, look at the response. For people to hear about political assassinations it has to make the news and be widely discussed. There isn't any point murdering artists to "keep fear high", that just gives them something to create art about. The usual tactic is to brand people as troublemakers then try and limit the news coverage they get. Or hit them with a smear campaign which is cheaper, easier and less likely to attract negative publicity like an assassination would. As a bonus the smear approach also directly discredits the message they were spreading.
    - Barbing 3mo ago
      While this did make the news I suppose not widely enough. Have you seen this kind of reporting?- > Russia is ramping up its attempts to kill opponents in Europe, intelligence officials say https://www.nbcnews.com/world/europe/russia-ramping-attempts-kill-opponents-europe-intelligence-officials-s-rcna344115 https://www.nbcnews.com/world/europe/russia-ramping-attempts... Could they please get back to smearing (or even… ADDING value to the world! once they have a better leader for their good people)
vintermann 3mo ago
[flagged]
ahartmetz 3mo ago
It seems obvious enough and there's a temporal correlation, too. https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/clyrzd5g6k2o https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/clyrzd5g6k2o >Video posted recently on social media showed Skrepetsky at a Russia Day protest outside the Russian embassy in Berlin on 12 June. >He had been carrying a painting caricaturing Putin and Soviet leader Joseph Stalin, as well as a Russian flag tied to his trousers that had been dragging along the road. The Russian trolls are out in force, suggesting that he might have been killed by some confused psychos or something.
- 0x59 3mo ago
  I'm just saying I don't yet have enough information to make up my mind. Take your name calling to Reddit.
  - cosmicgadget 3mo ago
    It's not name calling. Russian disinformation farms are things that exist. A bunch of people in this thread are desperately pointing fingers at Ukraine and Israel.
diath 3mo ago
There's so few gun related homicides in Poland that an execution style murder is 100% either mafia affairs or assassinations: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_in_Poland#Gun_deaths_and_crime https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_in_Poland#Gun_deaths_...
deleted 3mo ago
[deleted]
cosmicgadget 3mo ago
> When the victim fell to the ground, the perpetrator approached, fired three more shots and then quickly fled the scene. Robert K died at the scene," he added. Could have been almost anything!
drysine 3mo ago
>Kadyrov and his son Adam with pigs' snouts My money are on the president of Chechen republic.

headline makes it seem obvious who did it, but he didn't fall out of a window... so I'm going to wait for an investigation before I make up my mind

by 0x59 3mo ago

headline makes it seem obvious who did it, but he didn't fall out of a window... so I'm going to wait for an investigation before I make up my mind

littlecranky67 3mo ago

Russian assassins on foreign soil are also known to shot people during the day in broad daylight, just as [0] did in 2019 in Berlin Tiergarten park. Unfortunately, he was exchanged and is living freely after only a few years in german prison. [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vadim_Krasikov https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vadim_Krasikov

cubefox 3mo ago
Prisoners exchanges should be illegal if the crimes are disproportionate as in this case.
- FpUser 3mo ago
  I think saving one of your own who suffers because of protecting your country should take way more priority over simple vengeance.
  - cubefox 3mo ago
    It's not "simple vengeance". It's deterrence. If you don't punish assassins, assassinations will increase in expectation.
    - FpUser 3mo ago
      Bullshit. Who says anything about punishment. They are being punished, then there MAY come a choice. If you are so hell bent on "deterrence" look after presidential pardons. And if you do not save your own spies given a chance, the next one you want to hire will direct you straight to the place where the sun does not shine
      - cubefox 3mo ago
        > If you are so hell bent on "deterrence" look after presidential pardons. Yes, those create awful incentives and should absolutely not be legal. > And if you do not save your own spies given a chance One should not exchange spies for the cost of increasing political assasinations. Same reason as why you shouldn't pay kidnappers.
        cindyllm 3mo ago
        [dead]
        FpUser 3mo ago
        >"One should not exchange spies for the cost of increasing political assasinations. Same reason as why you shouldn't pay kidnappers." I strongly disagree for it to be used as a general approach for either spies or kidnappers. And who says it is exactly the cost? It is all coulda shoulda woulda and depends upon the particular situation.
    - tim333 3mo ago
      There are other ways you can deter though. Like actions against the government responsible rather than the individual.
- ogurechny 3mo ago
  International politics are fake. There is a gentleman's agreement that secret services can kill “traitors” and “enemies” anywhere as long as no one objects (or the objecting country is not important enough anyway). The hirelings get the fake documents that are perfectly known to the officials to be the token of non-diplomatic immunity, and also allow them to pretend they were once again fooled by the bad foreign state. In Skripal case, killers spent the day before waiting for some agents to appear at the location to tell them to go sightseeing somewhere else. Nothing happened = UK was OK with what they were doing. Only after the fact British officials started to create a scene, and what they were worried about most was the fact that Russian officials have sold the “special” passports to way too many “irrelevant” thugs and oligarchs who wanted to be untouchable when travelling abroad (hence the leak of the existence of those passports, and silent confirmation that they were respected by so-called free and lawful countries). You need to understand that those “above” are dumb bureaucrats playing dumb bureaucratic games. This is how societal selection works in current historical period. As for this case, Kadyrov (or his inner circle) is known to be emo about any critic, and has been successfully killing the Chechen refugees in Europe for decades now. Ukrainians also seem to operate freely, which is a bit ironic when you remember that Ukrainian agents were taught in the same secret military schools Russian agents graduated from, and that Ukrainian oligarchs have mansions on Côte d'Azur and similar places right next to mansions of Russian oligarchs. I sometimes worry about their travel logistics in such complex times. Poor creatures!
Am4TIfIsER0ppos 3mo ago
So who did the Germans get in exchange? Was it worth it like a basketball player for the Lord of War?
- flohofwoe 3mo ago
  As for German citizens: a red cross employee, an immigration lawyer, a 'political scientist' and a tourist who apparently tried to smuggle six gummy bears coated with canabis oil into Russia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2024_Ankara_prisoner_exchange https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2024_Ankara_prisoner_exchange (also various US and UK citizens)

roenxi 3mo ago

The article also doesn't really outline anything that makes sense as a motive. I'd imagine there are a number of artists in Poland critical of ... pretty much anyone you care to name but especially the Russian leadership. Artists are hard to please. The article seems to be hinting this was a Russian or Belarusian assassination, which might be true. Sounds like someone assassinated him. But if so there is a big hole to fill in the story on what a plausible reason is. Based on this my first guess would be that something in his private life spilled over, but I expect there is a section of the story that isn't in the news right now. EDIT Also related only by the vaguest vibe, but https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WeiweiCam https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WeiweiCam is more what I'd expect for artistic dissidents and is truly remarkable modern art.

Barbing 3mo ago
Would it make sense to a government like that to assassinate one critic at random periodically just to keep fear high? RIP Edit: didn’t see him holding satirized pictures of that president, almost withdraw the question
- roenxi 3mo ago
  No. And pretty obviously not, look at the response. For people to hear about political assassinations it has to make the news and be widely discussed. There isn't any point murdering artists to "keep fear high", that just gives them something to create art about. The usual tactic is to brand people as troublemakers then try and limit the news coverage they get. Or hit them with a smear campaign which is cheaper, easier and less likely to attract negative publicity like an assassination would. As a bonus the smear approach also directly discredits the message they were spreading.
  - Barbing 3mo ago
    While this did make the news I suppose not widely enough. Have you seen this kind of reporting?- > Russia is ramping up its attempts to kill opponents in Europe, intelligence officials say https://www.nbcnews.com/world/europe/russia-ramping-attempts-kill-opponents-europe-intelligence-officials-s-rcna344115 https://www.nbcnews.com/world/europe/russia-ramping-attempts... Could they please get back to smearing (or even… ADDING value to the world! once they have a better leader for their good people)

vintermann 3mo ago

[flagged]

ahartmetz 3mo ago

It seems obvious enough and there's a temporal correlation, too. https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/clyrzd5g6k2o https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/clyrzd5g6k2o >Video posted recently on social media showed Skrepetsky at a Russia Day protest outside the Russian embassy in Berlin on 12 June. >He had been carrying a painting caricaturing Putin and Soviet leader Joseph Stalin, as well as a Russian flag tied to his trousers that had been dragging along the road. The Russian trolls are out in force, suggesting that he might have been killed by some confused psychos or something.

0x59 3mo ago
I'm just saying I don't yet have enough information to make up my mind. Take your name calling to Reddit.
- cosmicgadget 3mo ago
  It's not name calling. Russian disinformation farms are things that exist. A bunch of people in this thread are desperately pointing fingers at Ukraine and Israel.

diath 3mo ago

There's so few gun related homicides in Poland that an execution style murder is 100% either mafia affairs or assassinations: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_in_Poland#Gun_deaths_and_crime https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_in_Poland#Gun_deaths_...

deleted 3mo ago

[deleted]

cosmicgadget 3mo ago

> When the victim fell to the ground, the perpetrator approached, fired three more shots and then quickly fled the scene. Robert K died at the scene," he added. Could have been almost anything!

drysine 3mo ago

>Kadyrov and his son Adam with pigs' snouts My money are on the president of Chechen republic.