4 ms·

Good riddance - this kind of thing needs to be experimented with more. But 5 grams! This reads like witch doctor science; I’m surprised it passed ethics

trio8453 3mo ago
The Johns Hopkins studies have been administering high doses for 20+ years now. The difference is that they use synthesized psilocybin instead of mushrooms (which makes the dosing more consistent since potency can vary a lot across strains and individual mushrooms).
Aboutplants 3mo ago
While it’s a fairly good sized dose, it’s not one that would typically produce a nightmare trip scenario. As far as ethics go, I would absolutely sign a document that gives the right for experimentation in the event I become incapacitated to some degree.
- Cthulhu_ 3mo ago
  I wouldn't, or put constraints into it - you may be incapacitated but you may also still be aware, and you wouldn't want to get I-have-no-mouth'd.
- neonstatic 3mo ago
  5+ grams is considered a "heroic dose", i.e. the one that is needed for ego death and subsequent therapeutic effects.
archonis 3mo ago
It's not just 5 grams of some random cubensis, it's 5 grams of the enigma strain, which is ridiculously potent.
- wouldbecouldbe 3mo ago
  Yeah and when they give it in experiments they also give participants an eye mask, which doesn't allow you to quickly snap back to reality. I enjoy Psilocybin, but that would be scary for me.
dwroberts 3mo ago
Yeah this story was on HN before a few weeks ago and I raised similar - it’s nuts to give that to someone who probably doesn’t have the mental state to be able to comprehend what is going on. Don’t understand how it is possibly ethical to do. Especially with the effects being temporary - can you imagine how awful it must be to regain lucidity outside of your control and then lose it again for the sake of an experiment like this? Awful experiment.
- bitmasher9 3mo ago
  What an interesting take. I was imagining how precious one last conversation with a loved one would be.
  - dwroberts 3mo ago
    Yeah well I was imagining how medical ethics work with respect to putting patients through unnecessary suffering. Temporarily restoring someone’s lucidity with the knowledge they will lose it again (having already suffered the progression of the disease the first time) is more helpful to you than it is to them
- kube-system 3mo ago
  > can you imagine how awful it must be to regain lucidity outside of your control and then lose it again for the sake of an experiment like this? I would imagine the losing it again part is typically somewhat similar to how someone remembers a surgery under anesthesia -- they don't.
WhyNotHugo 3mo ago
5 grams isn't a high dose though, I'm not sure why it's described as such. Shops sell doses starting at 15g, although they recommend newbies take only half of that. Example of a shop which describes 5g as a "light dose": https://www.sirius.nl/atlantis/ https://www.sirius.nl/atlantis/
- tasty_freeze 3mo ago
  You must be talking wet weight. 5g of dry mushrooms is about 50mg of psilocybin, which has been referred to as a "heroic dose" for decades.
- ChoGGi 3mo ago
  5 grams is what most people especially those new to mushrooms would call an intense experience. .5 grams to 1.5 grams is a mild experience. For a personal example; I accidently did 9 grams of golden teacher, tripped balls, and woke up in the hospital with bruises and a cracked rib. It was not an enjoyable experience.
foobarbecue 3mo ago
"good riddance"? What went away?

trio8453 3mo ago

The Johns Hopkins studies have been administering high doses for 20+ years now. The difference is that they use synthesized psilocybin instead of mushrooms (which makes the dosing more consistent since potency can vary a lot across strains and individual mushrooms).

Aboutplants 3mo ago

While it’s a fairly good sized dose, it’s not one that would typically produce a nightmare trip scenario. As far as ethics go, I would absolutely sign a document that gives the right for experimentation in the event I become incapacitated to some degree.

Cthulhu_ 3mo ago
I wouldn't, or put constraints into it - you may be incapacitated but you may also still be aware, and you wouldn't want to get I-have-no-mouth'd.
neonstatic 3mo ago
5+ grams is considered a "heroic dose", i.e. the one that is needed for ego death and subsequent therapeutic effects.

archonis 3mo ago

It's not just 5 grams of some random cubensis, it's 5 grams of the enigma strain, which is ridiculously potent.

wouldbecouldbe 3mo ago
Yeah and when they give it in experiments they also give participants an eye mask, which doesn't allow you to quickly snap back to reality. I enjoy Psilocybin, but that would be scary for me.

dwroberts 3mo ago

Yeah this story was on HN before a few weeks ago and I raised similar - it’s nuts to give that to someone who probably doesn’t have the mental state to be able to comprehend what is going on. Don’t understand how it is possibly ethical to do. Especially with the effects being temporary - can you imagine how awful it must be to regain lucidity outside of your control and then lose it again for the sake of an experiment like this? Awful experiment.

bitmasher9 3mo ago
What an interesting take. I was imagining how precious one last conversation with a loved one would be.
- dwroberts 3mo ago
  Yeah well I was imagining how medical ethics work with respect to putting patients through unnecessary suffering. Temporarily restoring someone’s lucidity with the knowledge they will lose it again (having already suffered the progression of the disease the first time) is more helpful to you than it is to them
kube-system 3mo ago
> can you imagine how awful it must be to regain lucidity outside of your control and then lose it again for the sake of an experiment like this? I would imagine the losing it again part is typically somewhat similar to how someone remembers a surgery under anesthesia -- they don't.

WhyNotHugo 3mo ago

5 grams isn't a high dose though, I'm not sure why it's described as such. Shops sell doses starting at 15g, although they recommend newbies take only half of that. Example of a shop which describes 5g as a "light dose": https://www.sirius.nl/atlantis/ https://www.sirius.nl/atlantis/

tasty_freeze 3mo ago
You must be talking wet weight. 5g of dry mushrooms is about 50mg of psilocybin, which has been referred to as a "heroic dose" for decades.
ChoGGi 3mo ago
5 grams is what most people especially those new to mushrooms would call an intense experience. .5 grams to 1.5 grams is a mild experience. For a personal example; I accidently did 9 grams of golden teacher, tripped balls, and woke up in the hospital with bruises and a cracked rib. It was not an enjoyable experience.

foobarbecue 3mo ago

"good riddance"? What went away?