6 ms·

One has to wonder if that's not related to how C# and .net are being treated as second class citizens nowadays at Microsoft. As we saw recently: http://news.y

by jbevain 14y ago

One has to wonder if that's not related to how C# and .net are being treated as second class citizens nowadays at Microsoft. As we saw recently: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4842024 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4842024 they're looking for someone to work on a C# to native code compiler. Even if .net as a VM and the C# to IL compiler are far from gone (and probably never will be), it doesn't look like C# and .net are in favor at Microsoft nowadays. Oh well, as long as Eric keeps on blogging...

tonyedgecombe 14y ago
"they're looking for someone to work on a C# to native code compiler" I wouldn't read too much into that. My guess is they are looking for something easier to work with for device driver developers.
- tkellogg 14y ago
  I'm not even sure why that's necessary. If you need a block of performant code, use unsafe C# (no array bounds checking, unmanaged pointers, etc). Otherwise, C# runs pretty fast the way it is.
  - wtetzner 14y ago
    I don't think it would be a speed thing. It would let you write C# that ran in kernel space without needing the CLR.
ericlippert 14y ago
There were many factors that led to this decision. I described the primary factor in my posting: I've been at this job for sixteen years at the same company, I am turning 40, and it is very common for people at that age to want to make a change. I assure you that "how C# is treated" was in no way a factor; C# is treated extremely well at Microsoft. Moreover, think it through: I would not have taken a job that continues to improve the broader C# ecosystem if I thought that the .NET platform was some kind of dead end. It is vital.
- redthrowaway 14y ago
  I was going to say something similar. It's odd how, in a community that exhorts its members to constantly be seeking the best opportunities, someone leaving a company after over a decade is considered a sign of some deeper problem.
- jbevain 14y ago
  Thanks for the feedback Eric. As a long time fan of C# and how it evolved (started with .net beta 1), and even more so of Roslyn, I for one would be very disappointed to see C# not being considered from Microsoft as I consider it. Good luck in your next position, I heard that Coverity for .net is using Cecil :)
andband 14y ago
I think .NET will always be there, I think C# will continue to grow and evolve as a language (with the help of its big brother F#).
meaty 14y ago
I'm inclined to agree. Getting support issues nailed with the .Net framework has started to become a PITA in the last year or so. It does feel like they are winding it all down.
Locke1689 14y ago
Don't get all conspiracy theory on us. Sad to see Eric go (just started working with him!) but glad that he's moving on to other great things.
- mythz 14y ago
  Doesn't take a conspiracy theorist to figure out C#/.NET is no longer Microsoft's sole flagship strategy for developers... Microsoft have recently discontinued their only managed .NET cross-platform managed UI effort in Silverlight in favor of the multi-language Win 8 SDK with JavaScript, C# and C++ bindings. Most Windows applications are still being written in C++ where you would barely notice the difference if Windows didn't have .NET installed, this is in stark contrast for instance with Apple's positioning of their own XCode/Obj-C development platform they've used to build OSX, which essentially would be a glorified terminal if you took away all Obj-C libraries and applications. Microsoft have also made significant investments in JavaScript and node.js, with even Anders moving off C# to work on TypeScript for a bit. Basically they're business models have changed where they're now positioning Azure (their new server strategy) as a multi-platform cloud strategy with support parity for .NET, node.js, Java, PHP and Python: https://www.windowsazure.com/en-us/develop/overview/ https://www.windowsazure.com/en-us/develop/overview/ So I don't think it's a stretch to observe there has been in-fact a "Difference in strategic position" with Microsoft's attitude towards C#/.NET.
  - stcredzero 14y ago
    > Doesn't take a conspiracy theorist to figure out C#/.NET is no longer Microsoft's sole flagship strategy for developers "Sole Flagship" strategies, be they for language or DB, whatever, are doomed to fail. The company has "picked a winner," reducing internal diversity and competition between approaches. Past a certain size threshold, a big company has become a number of interlinked ecosystems. Promoting standards to reduce friction of internal information sharing is the way to go. This enhances the positive effect of internal competition, instead of squashing it.
    - mythz 14y ago

by jbevain 14y ago

tonyedgecombe 14y ago

"they're looking for someone to work on a C# to native code compiler" I wouldn't read too much into that. My guess is they are looking for something easier to work with for device driver developers.

tkellogg 14y ago
I'm not even sure why that's necessary. If you need a block of performant code, use unsafe C# (no array bounds checking, unmanaged pointers, etc). Otherwise, C# runs pretty fast the way it is.
- wtetzner 14y ago
  I don't think it would be a speed thing. It would let you write C# that ran in kernel space without needing the CLR.

ericlippert 14y ago

There were many factors that led to this decision. I described the primary factor in my posting: I've been at this job for sixteen years at the same company, I am turning 40, and it is very common for people at that age to want to make a change. I assure you that "how C# is treated" was in no way a factor; C# is treated extremely well at Microsoft. Moreover, think it through: I would not have taken a job that continues to improve the broader C# ecosystem if I thought that the .NET platform was some kind of dead end. It is vital.

redthrowaway 14y ago
I was going to say something similar. It's odd how, in a community that exhorts its members to constantly be seeking the best opportunities, someone leaving a company after over a decade is considered a sign of some deeper problem.
jbevain 14y ago
Thanks for the feedback Eric. As a long time fan of C# and how it evolved (started with .net beta 1), and even more so of Roslyn, I for one would be very disappointed to see C# not being considered from Microsoft as I consider it. Good luck in your next position, I heard that Coverity for .net is using Cecil :)

andband 14y ago

I think .NET will always be there, I think C# will continue to grow and evolve as a language (with the help of its big brother F#).

meaty 14y ago

I'm inclined to agree. Getting support issues nailed with the .Net framework has started to become a PITA in the last year or so. It does feel like they are winding it all down.

Locke1689 14y ago

Don't get all conspiracy theory on us. Sad to see Eric go (just started working with him!) but glad that he's moving on to other great things.

mythz 14y ago
Doesn't take a conspiracy theorist to figure out C#/.NET is no longer Microsoft's sole flagship strategy for developers... Microsoft have recently discontinued their only managed .NET cross-platform managed UI effort in Silverlight in favor of the multi-language Win 8 SDK with JavaScript, C# and C++ bindings. Most Windows applications are still being written in C++ where you would barely notice the difference if Windows didn't have .NET installed, this is in stark contrast for instance with Apple's positioning of their own XCode/Obj-C development platform they've used to build OSX, which essentially would be a glorified terminal if you took away all Obj-C libraries and applications. Microsoft have also made significant investments in JavaScript and node.js, with even Anders moving off C# to work on TypeScript for a bit. Basically they're business models have changed where they're now positioning Azure (their new server strategy) as a multi-platform cloud strategy with support parity for .NET, node.js, Java, PHP and Python: https://www.windowsazure.com/en-us/develop/overview/ https://www.windowsazure.com/en-us/develop/overview/ So I don't think it's a stretch to observe there has been in-fact a "Difference in strategic position" with Microsoft's attitude towards C#/.NET.
- stcredzero 14y ago
  > Doesn't take a conspiracy theorist to figure out C#/.NET is no longer Microsoft's sole flagship strategy for developers "Sole Flagship" strategies, be they for language or DB, whatever, are doomed to fail. The company has "picked a winner," reducing internal diversity and competition between approaches. Past a certain size threshold, a big company has become a number of interlinked ecosystems. Promoting standards to reduce friction of internal information sharing is the way to go. This enhances the positive effect of internal competition, instead of squashing it.
  - mythz 14y ago