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What if I don’t care about affording more things? And instead want to live in an ethical society that prioritizes stability and universal access to housing, hea

What if I don’t care about affording more things? And instead want to live in an ethical society that prioritizes stability and universal access to housing, healthcare, and education?

AndrewKemendo 3mo ago
Welcome to the forever dissapointed club. The society you desire can’t exist unfortunately as much as I’ve thought it could and worked for it
- tonyedgecombe 3mo ago
  There’s no utopia but that doesn’t mean you can’t bend society in one direction or another.
  - AndrewKemendo 3mo ago
    Nobody is talking about utopia Society has always (yes always) “bent” toward dominating hierarchies because individuals want the stability of being part of the dominating group.
    - tonyedgecombe 3mo ago
      >The society you desire can’t exist
nostrebored 3mo ago
i think the reason for your deluge of downvotes is that a society the promotes more things becoming affordable is one that prioritizes stability. universal access to housing, healthcare, and education that people want is only possible in a society that is immensely productive.
- cucumber3732842 3mo ago
  Exactly. Those big ticket items that people are pissed off about are "things" too.
WalterBright 3mo ago
It's perfectly legal for you and like-minded people to set up a commune, and create the society you want. Or join an existing one.
- WalterBright 3mo ago
  BTW, the best I can figure is the average commune member quits after about 2 years, cured of the notion that communism is for them.
  - api 3mo ago
    Same is true for most eco villages, back to the land farms, etc. It’s a mix of the lifestyle not being exactly what people thought plus them getting culty. In many cases it’s more the latter than the former.
    - WalterBright 3mo ago
      What happens is people get tired of other people not working very diligently, but still getting an equal share.
      - bumby 3mo ago
        That’s a real aspect, but only one dimension. Nonetheless, it’s telling that it’s what you distill the entire problem down to. There are many other problems that make the problem hard: a) these communities often depend on consensus decision making. Problems that require collective action get nearly impossible when the society gets too big b) People underestimate how much they depend on greater society in a modern context c) It’s normal for future generations to have evolving values. The original idealistic notions tend to lose their luster to those who were born into it There are others more unique to communes, but I highlighted those because they also make it hard for the inverse libertarian ideal to work as well. Meaning it has to do as much with human nature as any ideology.
- bumby 3mo ago
azan_ 3mo ago
> And instead want to live in an ethical society that prioritizes stability and universal access to housing, healthcare, and education? Then talk to your local NIMBY. Housing crisis is not due to capitalism being evil, but due to constraining people from building. Healthcare is getting better all the time, we had MASSIVE breakthroughs this year at ASCO (which were made possible by big pharma!). As for education yeah, it could be better but it's completely tangential to the topic.
- bumby 3mo ago
  I think a lot of these statements are, at best, incomplete. For example, healthcare quality can get better while access gets lower, still resulting in worse outcomes for patients. Or, housing cost should be normalized based on size since until recently, houses have been getting larger on average.

What if I don’t care about affording more things? And instead want to live in an ethical society that prioritizes stability and universal access to housing, healthcare, and education?

AndrewKemendo 3mo ago

Welcome to the forever dissapointed club. The society you desire can’t exist unfortunately as much as I’ve thought it could and worked for it

tonyedgecombe 3mo ago
There’s no utopia but that doesn’t mean you can’t bend society in one direction or another.
- AndrewKemendo 3mo ago
  Nobody is talking about utopia Society has always (yes always) “bent” toward dominating hierarchies because individuals want the stability of being part of the dominating group.
  - tonyedgecombe 3mo ago
    >The society you desire can’t exist

nostrebored 3mo ago

i think the reason for your deluge of downvotes is that a society the promotes more things becoming affordable is one that prioritizes stability. universal access to housing, healthcare, and education that people want is only possible in a society that is immensely productive.

cucumber3732842 3mo ago
Exactly. Those big ticket items that people are pissed off about are "things" too.

WalterBright 3mo ago

It's perfectly legal for you and like-minded people to set up a commune, and create the society you want. Or join an existing one.

WalterBright 3mo ago
BTW, the best I can figure is the average commune member quits after about 2 years, cured of the notion that communism is for them.
- api 3mo ago
  Same is true for most eco villages, back to the land farms, etc. It’s a mix of the lifestyle not being exactly what people thought plus them getting culty. In many cases it’s more the latter than the former.
  - WalterBright 3mo ago
    What happens is people get tired of other people not working very diligently, but still getting an equal share.
    - bumby 3mo ago
      That’s a real aspect, but only one dimension. Nonetheless, it’s telling that it’s what you distill the entire problem down to. There are many other problems that make the problem hard: a) these communities often depend on consensus decision making. Problems that require collective action get nearly impossible when the society gets too big b) People underestimate how much they depend on greater society in a modern context c) It’s normal for future generations to have evolving values. The original idealistic notions tend to lose their luster to those who were born into it There are others more unique to communes, but I highlighted those because they also make it hard for the inverse libertarian ideal to work as well. Meaning it has to do as much with human nature as any ideology.
bumby 3mo ago

azan_ 3mo ago

> And instead want to live in an ethical society that prioritizes stability and universal access to housing, healthcare, and education? Then talk to your local NIMBY. Housing crisis is not due to capitalism being evil, but due to constraining people from building. Healthcare is getting better all the time, we had MASSIVE breakthroughs this year at ASCO (which were made possible by big pharma!). As for education yeah, it could be better but it's completely tangential to the topic.

bumby 3mo ago
I think a lot of these statements are, at best, incomplete. For example, healthcare quality can get better while access gets lower, still resulting in worse outcomes for patients. Or, housing cost should be normalized based on size since until recently, houses have been getting larger on average.