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Americans Are Leaving the U.S. in Record Numbers
- VeilusDigital 4mo agoWell I am not surprised, Look at who you have running the country. I have no interest In going to to visit ever again and I love the US but not with him or any of his cronies in charge.
- hellosputnik 4mo agoMaybe I'm becoming (or already cynical), but I'm increasingly tired of the genre of posts/reels/TikToks where someone moves to Vietnam, Portugal, Thailand, Mexico, etc. and comes back with profound observations about how "people there really know how to live" and how life is simply better there. A lot of "I've discovered a better way of life abroad" stories seem to quietly assume continued access to US wages, US assets, US equity compensation, or US retirement savings.
- throwaway67678 4mo agoDid you read the article?
- dilyevsky 4mo agoDid you? That's exactly what they are discussing except Spain and Portugal. One of the profiles still works remote at a major US software firm.
- mahirsaid 4mo agoregardless if you hate hearing them promoting their experiences or not, it's still true. People want to have fun and live happy not worry about school shooting, healthcare costs, living standards. I watched a video of a teacher that moved from Canada to China. He explained how much him and his family love it there, after 14 years he moved again to Singapore and loves it there just a little better than China. it is NOT all that unusual to move and have life shared across multiple countries. I think it's natural. We were literally doing that none stop during 1500's , 1400's ,1300's, just imagine the ancient silk-road.We might make it sound and feel like it is the worst thing you can do is move to another country in a form of guilt to betrayal of your residing country, but it's really not. Stop listening to everything that you hear. Choose what you want your brain to experience. Do what YOU think will bring you joy. I have lived in three states so far, yes lived not just visited. A relative told me numerous times " to not go, its a bad idea and far away moving to Florida, New York" guess what I should of moved sooner. wasted time and years listening to scared of change people.
- seanmcdirmid 4mo agoI loved china but eventually had to come back due to mostly air quality and some career issues. I’m back in my favorite American city at least, but having spent 11 years out (2 in Switzerland and 9 in china), I feel anxious (and I came back just in time for Trump 1, ugh).
- mahirsaid 4mo agoAgain i wish more people did what you did and experience life outside of their norm. Indeed it's not for everyone but the point stands. You made the choice to come back after experiencing something else for a while.
- Paradigm2020 4mo agoAir quality in china has massively improved over last couple of years... Oc not as fast in all cities but might want to update your priors :)) (if that trump 1 is not a typo 8 years is a huge difference)
- seanmcdirmid 4mo agoBeijing is better now but still not good enough. Anyways, we had a baby on the way in 2016 and my wife was pretty sure Beijing wouldn't work out for his lungs.
- mahirsaid 4mo agoI hear Philippines and Indonesia is another one people are picking to settle down.
- Paradigm2020 3mo agoNow it's better than quite a few places, personally based in Vietnam and wouldn't mind swapping air quality sometimes 2016 was definitely too bad and especially with a baby...
- fivetomidnight 4mo ago
- adrian_b 4mo agoThe US wages are desirable only for buying the things that have about the same price everywhere (because they are imported from the same Asian countries, with prices passing through US dollars), i.e. mostly electronics and computing devices. Other products and services, like food, clothes, a home, healthcare, education, or even cars, you can get better than in USA for lower prices, so that the budget for them can be even a lower fraction of a typical local wage, than it is in USA as a fraction of a US wage. Depending on personal needs and preferences, either USA or another country may be the better choice, but the value of a US wage has a much lower weight in a correct decision than you assume, because a wage must be compared with the expenses. Its absolute value tells very little, because the US dollar appears to be greatly overvalued in comparison with other currencies (which is a consequence of its role in international commerce).
- porknbeans00 4mo ago[flagged]
- dgellow 4mo ago> A lot of "I've discovered a better way of life abroad" stories seem to quietly assume continued access to US wages, US assets, US equity compensation, or US retirement savings. What’s the issue with that? You obviously have lower income in the rest of the world, the US is literally the wealthiest country. If you can benefit from US income and live in places that suits you better it’s clearly a pretty good situation. If you instead get a local wage you will still be in a good position, people leaving the US are generally with college education and high income. Maybe less wealthy but that’s ok, you don’t have to literally have the highest income in the world to be good.
- mathgeek 4mo agoI believe GP’s point was that folks conflate being in the upper wealth class of a region with that region being inherently better for the locals.
- porknbeans00 4mo agoI remember in 2012 or so I did a baseline comparison of a typical Starbucks employee in Montana versus a Silicon Valley software engineer and the cruel reality was that even thought he software engineer was making a lot more in their salary they were wildly more poor than the Starbucks employee. at the time ( this has changed ) the Starbucks employee could own a home and put into that equity. so lower cost of living and ability to save towards equity massively overwhelmed any perceived value of a 'high salary'. Throw in the cost of living in the Bay Area and the reality was the software engineers were barely subsisting while the barista was actually building a life for themselves. essentially. even inside the continental US.... the cost of living and cost of equity, tax structures, etc all matter a great deal. That doesn't change leaving the US. In fact it largely just gets more complicated. but you can ABSOLUTELY make a whole lot less in a region where you will live better and make more money Long term.
- xocnad 4mo agoUS equity assets are generally available to most. Where I earned my savings is also irrelevant.
- cahoot_bird 4mo agoI suspect some people moved there years ago with the lower cost of living little money around the time/since of the four-hour workweek tim ferris movement . Some countries do not allow public criticism, so of course they would make videos of wonderful places to live hoping to scratch income-wise by after some moving there with no backup plan. Just a little critical thinking. I can understand the just indiehacker and mvp/yolo it, but there is real risk there and I'd question the wisdom of that.
- mahirsaid 4mo agoSoon there will be restrictions on this. If the data ever gets presented and catches public opinion then i suspect the restrictions will start coming and salary caps based on expat workers will start to deter them from leaving. Quite the contradiction if you want people to stay. We all know this is the attitude of the admin ATM.
- Schlagbohrer 4mo agoThe trump admin changes to passports for transgender people have already caused problems for transgender americans who either want to travel or are already abroad.
- meszmate 4mo agoEurope gets romanticized way too much. Healthcare often means months of waiting and very hit-or-miss doctors. Bureaucracy is worse, salaries are lower, and there are plenty of stupid laws and corruption too. It is probably better if you value slower life, more vacation, and working less. But it is not some obvious upgrade over the U.S. Just a different set of problems. (I'm hungarian)
- waterTanuki 4mo agoAre you making a judgement on the entire European continent as a whole from your experience in Hungary or have you actually lived in a few countries across Europe to come to this conclusion?
- TheCleric 4mo agoI would take healthcare I have to wait a bit for over healthcare that could cripple me financially thanks.
- hdgvhicv 4mo agoLast time I used healthcare in mainland Europe (Austria) a suspected broken finger it was 25 minutes from waking in to having the scan and the splint and being on my way. This was free with a GHic. In the U.K. I had a problem and phoned my gp, went in 2 hours later, 10 minutes, walked out with a prescription. In the US I had the same problem, spent 2 hours, had my blood pressure taken 4 times, and eventually had the same prescription. That’s cost me $2,000. Now for chronic stuff perhaps it’s different. My mother told Her gp whe hd a problem with her shoulder and Gp said she didn’t need a CT scan, so she paid $300 for one privately which was booked in for a few days later. The results said there was nothing wrong. Maybe in the US it’s different and cheaper?
- esbranson 4mo ago> spent 2 hours, had my blood pressure taken 4 times ... cost me $2,000. I'd hate to see what they billed your insurer.
- 4mo ago
- aemoron 4mo agoI was lucky enough to visit the US before Trump's 1st term back in 2015. I even considered working there. Sure, the customs and TSA were uncomfortable experiences, but that's nothing compared to what my dual-citizenship colleague had on a recent trip. They were taken into a backroom for questioning at Houston airport for hours with no explanation and ultimately let go with no apologies, nothing. The "crime" was using their European passport, methinks. They are not going back to US after that experience.
- hdgvhicv 4mo agoGenerally if you are a citizen of a country you are expected to enter and leave on that passport. The UK has recently implemented the system https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cx2d9yk2kpjo https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cx2d9yk2kpjo Canada https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/services/visit-canada/dual-canadian-citizens-visit-canada.html https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/se... Australia is just a should https://immi.homeaffairs.gov.au/entering-and-leaving-australia/traveling-as-a-dual-citizen https://immi.homeaffairs.gov.au/entering-and-leaving-austral... NZ requires an endorsement of not travelling on an NZ passport https://www.immigration.govt.nz/process-to-apply/once-you-have-a-visa/manage-your-visa-and-passport/new-zealand-citizens-travelling-on-a-foreign-passport/ https://www.immigration.govt.nz/process-to-apply/once-you-ha...
- diogocp 4mo ago> it shall be unlawful for any citizen of the United States to depart from or enter, or attempt to depart from or enter, the United States unless he bears a valid United States passport. https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/8/1185#b https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/8/1185#b
- mindslight 4mo agoSo that seems like something that should be easily dealt with in a few minutes - request that they present their US passport, apprise them of the fine for entering without having obtained a US passport, and/or turn them away since their entry would be illegal. None of these require hours of questioning in a back room. I'm tired of this trend of people using a violation of the law, especially administrative style infractions, as a justification for arbitrary horribleness.
- ricksunny 4mo ago[flagged]
- metalman 4mo agoLots of americans and others, show up here in Nova Scotia (and other places) and try and settle down, many are what I call "lifestyle refugees", and are often well off but traumatised by something or the other, but as the merry pranksters say, "wherever you go, there you are", then there are the "helpers" who are bringing some sort of idea that nobody is unaware of, another category is the wealthy , self centered, city type moving to a rural area and inevitibly trying to claim a shared right of way, or "common land" as there own, and loosing there fluffy minds when they are told that they cant even sue somebody, happens like clockwork. Luckily there are also a good number of people who move for love, or true oportunity, or just to be in a quieter place, and they do just fine, and plenty of multigenerational dual citizenship familys, who move back and forth
- Schlagbohrer 4mo agoCanadians have told me Nova Scotia has had population decline over the past generation. Are there vacant homes and disused land there?
- rchaud 4mo agoI don't know about a population decline, but it's well known that its real estate is almost as expensive as it in major population centres. It's also very hard to find a family physician taking new patients.
- metalman 3mo agohuge amounts of vacant land and homes in rural areas, and by rural this means zero services, perhaps not even electricity or cell, which will be true for more than 75% of Canada. if there are power poles then there is still a lot of empty houses and land, but they will be again more than 45min drive from the most basic services, and there may be no internet or cell service due to topography and demographics, starlink is changing this quickly ,and imigration is causing a general population explosion along with a development boom in the city(singular), and big towns.
- telchior 4mo agoI left over a decade ago, but I actually considered coming back around 2024, so I put some research into it. The result was grim. - I'm now married to a non-American who is not white. We're not confident in the immigration process, to say the least - Both of us are self-employed; the quote for decent (not good, I mean aggressively mediocre) insurance was very high - Housing costs in any city we wanted to live in were very high; YMML on this obviously, but it covers a lot of cities - Any social ill, irritation, etc that was annoying me around 2010 is unsolved with no signs of progress - Extreme political polarization (actually a both sides thing) - The rise of aggressive Christian nationalism (very much a one side thing) - A horrifying pace of growth in political corruption Everywhere has its bad points and none of these are necessarily worse than a randomly chosen second country. I think the final deciding factor is just vibes; I feel like America is declining, the culture I was born into is warping, and I don't particularly want to watch it happen from the inside, now that I'm already on the outside.
- gnubison 4mo agoWhere did you leave to?
- spwa4 4mo agoTLDR: First, deportation. Second: Americans realizing they lose nothing by moving abroad, enjoy cheap housing, cheap healthcare, cheap ... while still holding US jobs at US wages.
- niemandhier 4mo agoThat is a problem for the counties they flock too. Portuguese might not mind tourists that spend money in the country, but I know they do not like rich foreigners living there, driving up prices for housing and everything else. People should consider migrating to other countries than Italy, Spain and Portugal: Poland, Hungary and Romania are great places to live. South Germany and Austria are also great and a bit easier to get by when only using English or consider Croatia if you are up for a bit more adventure.
- Schlagbohrer 4mo agoFantastic article. I laughed at the couple who listed their reasons for leaving: healthcare costs, university costs, housing costs, school shootings threatening their kids, having to work so much they never saw their kids, having to own multiple cars, etc etc and then they say "But we aren't rejecting the American system" after listing all the parts of the american system they rejected.
- Schlagbohrer 4mo agoI hate it when americans use the false statistic of comparing waiting times for healthcare between the usa and another country. It's a false statistic because in the united states, there are a great many people who need healthcare but can't afford it so their waiting time is inifinity truncated only by the fact that they'll eventually die. If their wait times were averaged in with all the americans who are rich enough to see a doctor, the stats wouldn't look so rosy. In a universal healthcare system the average wait times might be higher but every single person gets the healthcare they need.
- mindslight 4mo agoIt's a false statistic because the US has pretty terrible waiting times as well. Here we're just told that we have "choice", so those waiting times become our own responsibility rather than the system's.