6 ms·

Besides the brutal impact on those already invested in the American research community, this is one more nail in the coffin when it comes to competing for new t

Besides the brutal impact on those already invested in the American research community, this is one more nail in the coffin when it comes to competing for new talent. What researcher in their right mind would move their research and their future to the USA to join this clown rodeo? It is unbelievable to watch my country give up its most unfair (and yet mostly positive) advantage -- a nearly free option on the top talent of the entire planet. Here's hoping that the increasingly multipolar research world can find ways to be even more efficient in creating new knowledge.

sandworm101 4mo ago
Well, any research related to weapons programs. Jobs/grants in the fields of laser research, AI, material sciences, mathematics, chemistry and aerospace are safe... so long as you dont talk to outsiders.
- platevoltage 4mo ago
  As long as you don't step out line of course.
- tremon 4mo ago
  so long as you dont talk to outsiders outsiders like... their immediate family back home?
  - sandworm101 4mo ago
    Yes. Having "foreign contacts" is bad, even family members. If the family was somewhere like china then these would be called "adversarial foreign contacts". Culture has changed in the last ten years. People with grandparents in china are having significant problems when applying for jobs/clearances. https://clearedjobs.net/guides/security-clearance-foreign-contacts https://clearedjobs.net/guides/security-clearance-foreign-co... >> A foreign national spouse who is a citizen of the United Kingdom will be evaluated very differently from a foreign national spouse who is a citizen of China or Russia. Both must be disclosed fully, but the national security concern level is substantially different. Applicants with significant ties to adversarial countries face more intensive investigations and, in some cases, may not be eligible for certain programs even if their individual loyalty is not in question.
    - projectazorian 4mo ago
      This is for security clearances, not just any old job, and has been the case for forever. Even Taiwan and Israel are considered suspect. Even without this mandatory polygraphing and the absurd rules around lifetime drug use are enough to rule these roles out of contention for many.
    - ericd 4mo ago
      I think it’s less about loyalty to the US and more about the fact that loved ones in adversarial countries are pressure points those countries can push on.
- evrydayhustling 4mo ago
  Friends on ML/AI hiring committees at top tier university are seeing foreign profs turn away record offers. Same for applied math relevant to material science. I expect you are right at the most specialized end of the spectrum (and certainly industrial labs in those areas), but I wonder if anyone can speak directly to where we are still globally competitive.
  - sandworm101 4mo ago
    It depends. There are two populations, true "Americans" born in the country... and everyone else. The true Americans do not want to leave. If they do, it is about pay/taxes and if you ask them they will generally expect to come back to America eventually. The US remains very competitive for retaining such people. But for bringing elite minds from outside the country? Heck no. Sure, for the right price they will come, but few want to bring their families to actually stay. Ask someone like a surgeon or physicist whether they want to work in the US or Canada/UK. They will say something like "ya, to make bank for a few years, but long-term I would rather live in Toronto than New York, Vancouver rather than Seattle." The perception of the US by people outside the US is not something America pays much attention to these days. It is suffering.
    - projectazorian 4mo ago
      > The perception of the US by people outside the US is not something America pays much attention to these days. It is suffering I mean yeah, but some of us are old enough to remember how the consensus was that the world was done with America because of Bush, but then Obama got elected and suddenly it was all forgotten.
enraged_camel 4mo ago
>> What researcher in their right mind would move their research and their future to the USA to join this clown rodeo? Well, not all research is publicly funded. I think private funding is still fine for the most part. But yes, public research is dying a painful death.
boothby 4mo ago
As a Canadian on a hiring committee, it's fascinating to talk to Americans who hate the political environment but still don't want to relocate.
- inglor_cz 4mo ago
  $$$$$ > €€€ or ££ With a few exceptions like Switzerland, American levels of compensation for highly qualified people just can't be matched anywhere in the Western world. Saudi Arabia or UAE maybe, but these don't even try to pretend to be socially and politically liberal.
  - mschuster91 4mo ago
    > With a few exceptions like Switzerland, American levels of compensation for highly qualified people just can't be matched anywhere in the Western world. Gross compensation yes. But if you begin deducting stuff like the absurd American housing costs, private healthcare, saving up for deductibles, the need to own, insure, fuel and maintain a car to do everything because almost nothing is accessible by public transport, retirement savings, everyday stuff such as restaurants being made much more expensive than what's on the paper because of mandatory tipping, saving up for your children's academic degree while paying off your own student debt, hell saving up for having a child (just the birth will be 20k out of pocket [1]), saving up for times of un(der)employment... suddenly most of Europe becomes pretty affordable if you are not on FAANG levels of compensation. [1] https://www.investopedia.com/how-much-does-it-cost-to-have-a-baby-in-america-6745508 https://www.investopedia.com/how-much-does-it-cost-to-have-a...
    - Redoubts 4mo ago
      I mean the salary difference is a few hundred k, so this all just reads like cope.
      - mschuster91 4mo ago
        > I mean the salary difference is a few hundred k Yes, for FAANG during Covid and now AI. But your average SWE? That's more like 130k in the US [1] vs 61k in Germany [2]. In Germany, that's about 3500€ net (after taxes, retirement and health insurance - that is deducted from gross wages here) per month, of which you spend about 1500-1800 on cost of living (in Munich, the most expensive city in Germany by far), so about 1700-2000 in disposable income. You don't need a car because everything is walkable and a flatrate for all public transit across Germany is about 63€ a month. Let's do the math for the US, California. Net pay is 87k/y or 7250/mo [3]. Of that, subtract ~600$ for a PPO plan (it's still not as good as Germany's default which does not have anything comparable to "in network", but good enough) and ~200$ for an average 2400$/y deductible. A 10% contribution to a 401k, 725$ a month. 2500$ for a 1-br apartment [4]. Now add in 100$ a month for car insurance (VW Golf) and 399$ in leasing rates for that VW Golf, then you're at 2.700$ a month in disposable income. But since you still have to pay half a grand a month on your average student loan [5], whoops, 2.200€ a month in disposable income left. And frankly, making 200-500$ a month more in disposable income? That is not that much of a difference, particularly once you begin factoring in the "soft factors". Here in Germany, you can't be fired at-will, you'll always have to be paid for at least three months, that's one huge uncertainty off my back. You don't have to fear your kid getting shot (12 children a day die in the US from gun violence), you don't have to fear surprise bills when dealing with medical emergencies, you don't have to fear ICE picking you up and deporting you, you don't have to save up for the privilege of your child attending university because that's free in Germany. If you're lucky and/or well-connected enough to land a job at FAANG/AI? By all means, go for the US. But for everyone else? Come here to Europe. Life's better here. Especially if you or your children are LGBT - or, given the recent anti-abortion crusade that bans lifesaving healthcare in many states, if you carry an uterus. [1] https://www.indeed.com/career/software-engineer/salaries https://www.indeed.com/career/software-engineer/salaries [2] https://www.kununu.com/de/gehalt/softwareentwickler-in-15019 https://www.kununu.com/de/gehalt/softwareentwickler-in-15019 [3] https://www.talent.com/tax-calculator?salary=130000&from=year&region=California https://www.talent.com/tax-calculator?salary=130000&from=yea... [4] https://sfist.com/2026/05/28/average-rent-for-san-francisco-one-bedroom-apartment-hits-4-000/ https://sfist.com/2026/05/28/average-rent-for-san-francisco-... [5] https://admissions.usf.edu/blog/how-much-college-debt-is-too-much https://admissions.usf.edu/blog/how-much-college-debt-is-too... [6] https://www.sandyhookpromise.org/resources/gun-violence-facts/ https://www.sandyhookpromise.org/resources/gun-violence-fact...
jjtheblunt 4mo ago
> What researcher in their right mind would move their research and their future to the USA to join this clown rodeo? what about private companies making profits luring researchers?
- conception 4mo ago
  Private companies don’t do basic research.
  - jjtheblunt 4mo ago
    they definitely do for electronics, for example. i've worked in such (Qualcomm, Motorola, Apple) in inner sanctum engineering roles.
  - j7ake 4mo ago
    Check Physics and Chemistry Nobel prize of last 5 years, Google was involved in half of them.
    - xhkkffbf 4mo ago
      IBM researchers won a few Nobel prizes themselves.
  - dcrazy 4mo ago
    Have things changed since Bell Labs produced the transistor?
    - inejge 4mo ago
      Yes. Bell Labs are a shadow of their former glory, when Bell could lavishly fund it, having a quasi-socialist telecommunications monopoly. Private companies don't like to fund research outside of their own domain -- that has been offloaded to federal funding, but (as seen here) it's getting a lot more strings attached.

sandworm101 4mo ago

Well, any research related to weapons programs. Jobs/grants in the fields of laser research, AI, material sciences, mathematics, chemistry and aerospace are safe... so long as you dont talk to outsiders.

platevoltage 4mo ago
As long as you don't step out line of course.
tremon 4mo ago
so long as you dont talk to outsiders outsiders like... their immediate family back home?
- sandworm101 4mo ago
  Yes. Having "foreign contacts" is bad, even family members. If the family was somewhere like china then these would be called "adversarial foreign contacts". Culture has changed in the last ten years. People with grandparents in china are having significant problems when applying for jobs/clearances. https://clearedjobs.net/guides/security-clearance-foreign-contacts https://clearedjobs.net/guides/security-clearance-foreign-co... >> A foreign national spouse who is a citizen of the United Kingdom will be evaluated very differently from a foreign national spouse who is a citizen of China or Russia. Both must be disclosed fully, but the national security concern level is substantially different. Applicants with significant ties to adversarial countries face more intensive investigations and, in some cases, may not be eligible for certain programs even if their individual loyalty is not in question.
  - projectazorian 4mo ago
    This is for security clearances, not just any old job, and has been the case for forever. Even Taiwan and Israel are considered suspect. Even without this mandatory polygraphing and the absurd rules around lifetime drug use are enough to rule these roles out of contention for many.
  - ericd 4mo ago
    I think it’s less about loyalty to the US and more about the fact that loved ones in adversarial countries are pressure points those countries can push on.
evrydayhustling 4mo ago
Friends on ML/AI hiring committees at top tier university are seeing foreign profs turn away record offers. Same for applied math relevant to material science. I expect you are right at the most specialized end of the spectrum (and certainly industrial labs in those areas), but I wonder if anyone can speak directly to where we are still globally competitive.
- sandworm101 4mo ago
  It depends. There are two populations, true "Americans" born in the country... and everyone else. The true Americans do not want to leave. If they do, it is about pay/taxes and if you ask them they will generally expect to come back to America eventually. The US remains very competitive for retaining such people. But for bringing elite minds from outside the country? Heck no. Sure, for the right price they will come, but few want to bring their families to actually stay. Ask someone like a surgeon or physicist whether they want to work in the US or Canada/UK. They will say something like "ya, to make bank for a few years, but long-term I would rather live in Toronto than New York, Vancouver rather than Seattle." The perception of the US by people outside the US is not something America pays much attention to these days. It is suffering.
  - projectazorian 4mo ago
    > The perception of the US by people outside the US is not something America pays much attention to these days. It is suffering I mean yeah, but some of us are old enough to remember how the consensus was that the world was done with America because of Bush, but then Obama got elected and suddenly it was all forgotten.

enraged_camel 4mo ago

>> What researcher in their right mind would move their research and their future to the USA to join this clown rodeo? Well, not all research is publicly funded. I think private funding is still fine for the most part. But yes, public research is dying a painful death.

boothby 4mo ago

As a Canadian on a hiring committee, it's fascinating to talk to Americans who hate the political environment but still don't want to relocate.

inglor_cz 4mo ago
$$$$$ > €€€ or ££ With a few exceptions like Switzerland, American levels of compensation for highly qualified people just can't be matched anywhere in the Western world. Saudi Arabia or UAE maybe, but these don't even try to pretend to be socially and politically liberal.
- mschuster91 4mo ago
  > With a few exceptions like Switzerland, American levels of compensation for highly qualified people just can't be matched anywhere in the Western world. Gross compensation yes. But if you begin deducting stuff like the absurd American housing costs, private healthcare, saving up for deductibles, the need to own, insure, fuel and maintain a car to do everything because almost nothing is accessible by public transport, retirement savings, everyday stuff such as restaurants being made much more expensive than what's on the paper because of mandatory tipping, saving up for your children's academic degree while paying off your own student debt, hell saving up for having a child (just the birth will be 20k out of pocket [1]), saving up for times of un(der)employment... suddenly most of Europe becomes pretty affordable if you are not on FAANG levels of compensation. [1] https://www.investopedia.com/how-much-does-it-cost-to-have-a-baby-in-america-6745508 https://www.investopedia.com/how-much-does-it-cost-to-have-a...
  - Redoubts 4mo ago
    I mean the salary difference is a few hundred k, so this all just reads like cope.
    - mschuster91 4mo ago
      > I mean the salary difference is a few hundred k Yes, for FAANG during Covid and now AI. But your average SWE? That's more like 130k in the US [1] vs 61k in Germany [2]. In Germany, that's about 3500€ net (after taxes, retirement and health insurance - that is deducted from gross wages here) per month, of which you spend about 1500-1800 on cost of living (in Munich, the most expensive city in Germany by far), so about 1700-2000 in disposable income. You don't need a car because everything is walkable and a flatrate for all public transit across Germany is about 63€ a month. Let's do the math for the US, California. Net pay is 87k/y or 7250/mo [3]. Of that, subtract ~600$ for a PPO plan (it's still not as good as Germany's default which does not have anything comparable to "in network", but good enough) and ~200$ for an average 2400$/y deductible. A 10% contribution to a 401k, 725$ a month. 2500$ for a 1-br apartment [4]. Now add in 100$ a month for car insurance (VW Golf) and 399$ in leasing rates for that VW Golf, then you're at 2.700$ a month in disposable income. But since you still have to pay half a grand a month on your average student loan [5], whoops, 2.200€ a month in disposable income left. And frankly, making 200-500$ a month more in disposable income? That is not that much of a difference, particularly once you begin factoring in the "soft factors". Here in Germany, you can't be fired at-will, you'll always have to be paid for at least three months, that's one huge uncertainty off my back. You don't have to fear your kid getting shot (12 children a day die in the US from gun violence), you don't have to fear surprise bills when dealing with medical emergencies, you don't have to fear ICE picking you up and deporting you, you don't have to save up for the privilege of your child attending university because that's free in Germany. If you're lucky and/or well-connected enough to land a job at FAANG/AI? By all means, go for the US. But for everyone else? Come here to Europe. Life's better here. Especially if you or your children are LGBT - or, given the recent anti-abortion crusade that bans lifesaving healthcare in many states, if you carry an uterus. [1] https://www.indeed.com/career/software-engineer/salaries https://www.indeed.com/career/software-engineer/salaries [2] https://www.kununu.com/de/gehalt/softwareentwickler-in-15019 https://www.kununu.com/de/gehalt/softwareentwickler-in-15019 [3] https://www.talent.com/tax-calculator?salary=130000&from=year&region=California https://www.talent.com/tax-calculator?salary=130000&from=yea... [4] https://sfist.com/2026/05/28/average-rent-for-san-francisco-one-bedroom-apartment-hits-4-000/ https://sfist.com/2026/05/28/average-rent-for-san-francisco-... [5] https://admissions.usf.edu/blog/how-much-college-debt-is-too-much https://admissions.usf.edu/blog/how-much-college-debt-is-too... [6] https://www.sandyhookpromise.org/resources/gun-violence-facts/ https://www.sandyhookpromise.org/resources/gun-violence-fact...

jjtheblunt 4mo ago

> What researcher in their right mind would move their research and their future to the USA to join this clown rodeo? what about private companies making profits luring researchers?

conception 4mo ago
Private companies don’t do basic research.
- jjtheblunt 4mo ago
  they definitely do for electronics, for example. i've worked in such (Qualcomm, Motorola, Apple) in inner sanctum engineering roles.
- j7ake 4mo ago
  Check Physics and Chemistry Nobel prize of last 5 years, Google was involved in half of them.
  - xhkkffbf 4mo ago
    IBM researchers won a few Nobel prizes themselves.
- dcrazy 4mo ago
  Have things changed since Bell Labs produced the transistor?
  - inejge 4mo ago
    Yes. Bell Labs are a shadow of their former glory, when Bell could lavishly fund it, having a quasi-socialist telecommunications monopoly. Private companies don't like to fund research outside of their own domain -- that has been offloaded to federal funding, but (as seen here) it's getting a lot more strings attached.