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Some of the negative aspects of schooling: Destruction of creativity, obedience, deferring to authority, loss of time, loss of identity, bullying, inability to

Some of the negative aspects of schooling: Destruction of creativity, obedience, deferring to authority, loss of time, loss of identity, bullying, inability to pursue subjects in depth, learning to self-censor, second-rate materials, not being allowed to read, not being allowed to talk, have to ask permission to go to the bathroom, learning to tease those who fail to self-censor, everybody trying sooo hard to be normal, belief that exams measure knowledge, being put off math for life, inability to learn during adulthood, etc.

bpatrianakos 14y ago
I think some of those aren't bad. It seems like a few of those points are things that you maybe had a hard time coping with or know someone who has and so now you're saying this is a negative consequence of schooling. Learning to self-censor is a good thing. It doesn't mean you stop thinking independently, it just means you learn what's appropriate to say to whom, and how, and when, and where, etc. This isn't necessarily a bad thing and is an important part of developing as a person. We can't go around saying "hi, I think you're fat" when we meet someone overweight and then applaud it because self-censorship is bad. Kinda lame example but you know what I mean. Trying to be normal and fit in is also an important part of growing up. Because I don't know any better, this point makes it sound like you're promoting non-conformity for the sake of non-conformity. You can be normal and still be unique. We live in the real world and learning how to choose groups to be accepted by and subsequently fitting in with them is an essential skill all humans need to learn. I personally am lacking in that skill so I have lots of awkward social interactions at work and other places. It's not a good thing and I wish I did learn to be normal. I can still be myself when its appropriate but sometimes you there's nothing wrong with just fitting in. Learning how to handle teasing (regardless of whether you are being teased or doing the teasing) is, once again, an important part of developing as a person. These three points you list are not negatives of schooling at all and they are just as prevalent outside of an educational environment as they are within one. Furthermore, being exposed to these things and subsequently learning how to cope with them makes you a more well rounded person. People who don't go through these experiences and don't develop these social skills will have a harder time out in the real world than those who have. It's my personal belief that people who tend to spend lots of time online (particularly the stereotypical nerd gamers and coders) have a hard time socially partially because they have avoided situations where they would have to learn to self-censor, be teased, tease someone else, trying to fit it. There are other factors but learning how to get through these challenges would probably help them a bit. Now, you do make some good point about second-rate materials. The belief that exams measure knowledge is also highly debatable and probably false too, I'll grant you that. That said, the rest of your points sound more like a rejection of authority than anything that's detrimental to people. There's nothing wrong to deferring to authority. We live in a civilized society and there's a structure to it. The key is learning when its justified to stand up to authority. I can see you're coming from a sincere place but I just can't get behind you on this. It seems more like you're ant-authority for the sake of being anti-authority and nothing more.
- chimpinee 14y ago
  Well, it's more important where education is going than what any one of us happens to think. Most people who went to school find it very hard to conceive of it as a purely bad thing because they themselves had to pay a large psychological price to adapt to it. They don't understand about memes and how harmful ideas and institutions can persist. They would rather see it in a positive light. No doubt ancient Aztecs felt similarly after their relatives had been sacrificed! The self-censoring issue is directly linked to creativity. Our first thoughts are the most creative; however, people learn to censor them so that these don't reach the level of awareness. Thus they don't have the option either to criticise or to enact them. HNers have retained a portion of their creativity. It's the majority and esp. the minimum wagers who have paid the highest price. Learning to get on with people is a vital part of life but being herded together to perform make-work with people the same age as you is not the best way to learn this. Neither is prison nor the army. Voluntary relationships with friends and colleagues are more instructive, where people are unafraid and free to leave and there are real creative tasks at stake.

bpatrianakos 14y ago

I think some of those aren't bad. It seems like a few of those points are things that you maybe had a hard time coping with or know someone who has and so now you're saying this is a negative consequence of schooling. Learning to self-censor is a good thing. It doesn't mean you stop thinking independently, it just means you learn what's appropriate to say to whom, and how, and when, and where, etc. This isn't necessarily a bad thing and is an important part of developing as a person. We can't go around saying "hi, I think you're fat" when we meet someone overweight and then applaud it because self-censorship is bad. Kinda lame example but you know what I mean. Trying to be normal and fit in is also an important part of growing up. Because I don't know any better, this point makes it sound like you're promoting non-conformity for the sake of non-conformity. You can be normal and still be unique. We live in the real world and learning how to choose groups to be accepted by and subsequently fitting in with them is an essential skill all humans need to learn. I personally am lacking in that skill so I have lots of awkward social interactions at work and other places. It's not a good thing and I wish I did learn to be normal. I can still be myself when its appropriate but sometimes you there's nothing wrong with just fitting in. Learning how to handle teasing (regardless of whether you are being teased or doing the teasing) is, once again, an important part of developing as a person. These three points you list are not negatives of schooling at all and they are just as prevalent outside of an educational environment as they are within one. Furthermore, being exposed to these things and subsequently learning how to cope with them makes you a more well rounded person. People who don't go through these experiences and don't develop these social skills will have a harder time out in the real world than those who have. It's my personal belief that people who tend to spend lots of time online (particularly the stereotypical nerd gamers and coders) have a hard time socially partially because they have avoided situations where they would have to learn to self-censor, be teased, tease someone else, trying to fit it. There are other factors but learning how to get through these challenges would probably help them a bit. Now, you do make some good point about second-rate materials. The belief that exams measure knowledge is also highly debatable and probably false too, I'll grant you that. That said, the rest of your points sound more like a rejection of authority than anything that's detrimental to people. There's nothing wrong to deferring to authority. We live in a civilized society and there's a structure to it. The key is learning when its justified to stand up to authority. I can see you're coming from a sincere place but I just can't get behind you on this. It seems more like you're ant-authority for the sake of being anti-authority and nothing more.

chimpinee 14y ago
Well, it's more important where education is going than what any one of us happens to think. Most people who went to school find it very hard to conceive of it as a purely bad thing because they themselves had to pay a large psychological price to adapt to it. They don't understand about memes and how harmful ideas and institutions can persist. They would rather see it in a positive light. No doubt ancient Aztecs felt similarly after their relatives had been sacrificed! The self-censoring issue is directly linked to creativity. Our first thoughts are the most creative; however, people learn to censor them so that these don't reach the level of awareness. Thus they don't have the option either to criticise or to enact them. HNers have retained a portion of their creativity. It's the majority and esp. the minimum wagers who have paid the highest price. Learning to get on with people is a vital part of life but being herded together to perform make-work with people the same age as you is not the best way to learn this. Neither is prison nor the army. Voluntary relationships with friends and colleagues are more instructive, where people are unafraid and free to leave and there are real creative tasks at stake.