6 ms·

Do you know how to operate a punch card?

by eclipxe 4mo ago

natebc 4mo ago
Yes. But Python isn't punch cards behind the scenes so it's not the same thing at all. Besides. You're not asking <AGENT OF THE WEEK> to produce punch cards to jam into the PDP.
- Scoundreller 4mo ago
  someone needs to try this
jhide 4mo ago
Do you maintain a system in which punch cards play a critical role?
ares623 4mo ago
Do you let your Jenkins re-inference your entire program from markdown files on each push?
- throwaway613746 4mo ago
  [dead]
eric__cartman 4mo ago
If I transported you to the 1960s and gave you a wizard that could punch cards for you with a chance of making a mistake, would you still bother to learn how to operate a punch card? What would you do if the wizard gets stuck? Coarse the wizard into making the black box work through somebody else's direct perspective on the problem?
throwaway613746 4mo ago
[dead]
merlincorey 4mo ago
Yes, and IBM has current documentation if you need to that has been updated in 2026: https://www.ibm.com/docs/en/zos/3.2.0?topic=considerations-using-card-reader-punch https://www.ibm.com/docs/en/zos/3.2.0?topic=considerations-u... It's generally and simply an encoding of what amounts to binary machine code which you translate via assembly code acting as a deterministic compiler from assembly to machine code if you are doing it manually. LLMs aren't a deterministic process and human languages aren't as clear as machine code and assembly.
- fghorow 4mo ago
  O.M.G. I last used a card punch in circa 1980 or thereabouts...
  - deleted 4mo ago
    [deleted]
CharlieDigital 4mo ago
I don't think this is comparable. It's more like a restaurant. You give an order and a little while later, a finished dish appears. The difference between a Chipotle and a Michelin starred establishment is that Chipotle is just assembling a mass produced good. A Michelin chef knows their ingredients inside and out; knows the science of how those ingredients work; knows varied techniques to extract flavors, create textures, etc. Anyone can work in a Chipotle; few can achieve a Michelin star.
wpollock 4mo ago
> Do you know how to operate a punch card? I remember! You created a control card, with tab stops and other controls, wrapped it around a control drum, and then had an easy time punching your source FORTRAN! I just looked and found my old control drum, in the back of my junk drawer. But I can't find an old punch card machine in there, most have lost it somehow.
mook 4mo ago
I've never programmed before good compilers existed, but I still know some assembly. For what I currently do it's used rarely, but it's still quite valuable on occasion. I don't see any reason LLM-assisted programming wouldn't be like that; for sure the various C compilers sure seem like they're trying just as hard to produce results you don't want.

Do you know how to operate a punch card?

by eclipxe 4mo ago

Do you know how to operate a punch card?

Yes. But Python isn't punch cards behind the scenes so it's not the same thing at all. Besides. You're not asking <AGENT OF THE WEEK> to produce punch cards to jam into the PDP.

Scoundreller 4mo ago
someone needs to try this

jhide 4mo ago

Do you maintain a system in which punch cards play a critical role?

ares623 4mo ago

Do you let your Jenkins re-inference your entire program from markdown files on each push?

throwaway613746 4mo ago
[dead]

eric__cartman 4mo ago

If I transported you to the 1960s and gave you a wizard that could punch cards for you with a chance of making a mistake, would you still bother to learn how to operate a punch card? What would you do if the wizard gets stuck? Coarse the wizard into making the black box work through somebody else's direct perspective on the problem?

throwaway613746 4mo ago

[dead]

merlincorey 4mo ago

Yes, and IBM has current documentation if you need to that has been updated in 2026: https://www.ibm.com/docs/en/zos/3.2.0?topic=considerations-using-card-reader-punch https://www.ibm.com/docs/en/zos/3.2.0?topic=considerations-u... It's generally and simply an encoding of what amounts to binary machine code which you translate via assembly code acting as a deterministic compiler from assembly to machine code if you are doing it manually. LLMs aren't a deterministic process and human languages aren't as clear as machine code and assembly.

fghorow 4mo ago
O.M.G. I last used a card punch in circa 1980 or thereabouts...
- deleted 4mo ago
  [deleted]

CharlieDigital 4mo ago

I don't think this is comparable. It's more like a restaurant. You give an order and a little while later, a finished dish appears. The difference between a Chipotle and a Michelin starred establishment is that Chipotle is just assembling a mass produced good. A Michelin chef knows their ingredients inside and out; knows the science of how those ingredients work; knows varied techniques to extract flavors, create textures, etc. Anyone can work in a Chipotle; few can achieve a Michelin star.

wpollock 4mo ago

> Do you know how to operate a punch card? I remember! You created a control card, with tab stops and other controls, wrapped it around a control drum, and then had an easy time punching your source FORTRAN! I just looked and found my old control drum, in the back of my junk drawer. But I can't find an old punch card machine in there, most have lost it somehow.

mook 4mo ago

I've never programmed before good compilers existed, but I still know some assembly. For what I currently do it's used rarely, but it's still quite valuable on occasion. I don't see any reason LLM-assisted programming wouldn't be like that; for sure the various C compilers sure seem like they're trying just as hard to produce results you don't want.