6 ms·

As an atheist I have an obligation to finish reading it all (still going through, and taking notes, probably having to revisit), but I am not sure how many (chr

As an atheist I have an obligation to finish reading it all (still going through, and taking notes, probably having to revisit), but I am not sure how many (christian) believers will feel the same.

Vaslo 4mo ago
You mean Catholic believers, not Christian
- jact 4mo ago
  Catholics are Christian.
  - dgellow 4mo ago
    In theory only and all Catholics recognize the authority of the pope. In practice it’s a mess as far as I understand, with a bunch of American catholic groups who rejected church reforms that happened during the 20th century, resulting in people calling themselves catholic who do not actually believe that the Catholic Church has authority over their religion. Add to that the fact that the pope has a cultural influence that goes further than only the catholic audience (lots of Protestant see the pope as important even if that’s not something dictated by Protestantism, a bunch of not really religious people see him as a sort of spiritual leader, etc)
    - Amezarak 4mo ago
      I'm not aware of any Protestants that see the Pope as important except in a very negative way - that's practically the defining feature of Protestantism and one of the few things all the Protestant denominations have in common, whether "low church" or "high church". Heck, it's a struggle to convince many of them that Catholics are Christian at all, and "the Pope is the antichrist" used to be a normal, mainstream comment in American newspapers. It is somewhat a piece of irony that the Pope generally holds a more favorable reputation in the minds of the irreligious in America than the religious. Even the average Catholic likely does not have as much respect for the Pope as some of the commenters here.
      - dgellow 4mo ago
        [dead]
      - lobocinza 4mo ago
        Any serious Protestant (mainline and knowledgeable) listen and give weight when the Pope speaks. They would certainly refuse the Pope authority and inerrancy ex Cathedra but not necessarily disagree with him. Theologically there's much less division between Protestants and Catholics today than in XVI. A large share of disagreeements are due to residual historical animosity.
        Amezarak 4mo ago
        Every mainline Protestant denomination was basically founded on the idea that they shouldn’t have to listen to the Pope at all. And that was before Papal infallibility was enshrined, which actually didn’t take place until the late 1800s. In America, anti-Catholic sentiment was extremely strong until relatively recently, and then only because religiosity (and thus the reason for it) has declined. All the theological division still exists, it’s just less striking in a world that’s much more irreligious and in countries where vastly different religions (Muslim or Hindu) are present now in real numbers. Practically all the pro-Pope sentiment I’ve seen in my lifetime has been from various flavors of atheists, agnostics, and other areligious types. Catholics themselves generally hold more respect for the office than the person, and Protestants are almost uniformly negative on both.
        joveian 4mo ago
        Vatican II started a major and ongoing reconciliation process leading to things like the "Joint Declaration on the Doctrine of Justification" (1999, quietly resolving the core issues of the reformation) and Pope Francis commemorating the 500th anniversary of the reformation at a Lutheran church in Sweden (2016): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joint_Declaration_on_the_Doctrine_of_Justification https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joint_Declaration_on_the_Doctr... https://www.vatican.va/content/francesco/en/events/event.dir.html/content/vaticanevents/en/2016/10/31/dichiarazione-congiunta.html https://www.vatican.va/content/francesco/en/events/event.dir... I think attitudes vary regionally and by congregation and an ecumenical focus doesn't necessarily translate to a positive perception of the pope but it can and not just all that recently.
  - Vaslo 4mo ago
    But all Christians aren’t Catholic which is my point.
jawns 4mo ago
From where does that obligation originate?
- cap11235 4mo ago
  [dead]
dgellow 4mo ago
As an atheist and even anti-theist I see no such obligation. What a strange thing to say
raldi 4mo ago
Priests will read it and then talk to their congregations about it on Sundays throughout the year, if not explicitly, then in how it shapes their homilies.
- michaelsbradley 4mo ago
  Some Catholic priests might do that, it’s up to the individuals.
  - achierius 4mo ago
    Most will and do. Few people become priests, today especially, without a deep-seated faith and desire to spread/support it.
    - michaelsbradley 4mo ago
      We may have different things in mind. In all my life of being Catholic (I’ll turn 50 this year), I’ve heard less than 5 homilies-sermons that amounted, in whole or part, to a reflection on a papal encyclical. Over time there may be juicy papal quotes that make it into Sunday preaching, but that’s about it. Instead, priests tend to focus on the readings for that Sunday’s Mass and more general themes. That being said, I hope many priests do read an encyclical any time a pope publishes one, but they’re very, very busy most days and weeks, so whether any one priest will commit time to reading a particular encyclical, old and dusty or hot off the presses, will depend on a lot of factors that are as varied as their individual circumstances and personalities.

As an atheist I have an obligation to finish reading it all (still going through, and taking notes, probably having to revisit), but I am not sure how many (christian) believers will feel the same.

Vaslo 4mo ago

You mean Catholic believers, not Christian

jact 4mo ago
Catholics are Christian.
- dgellow 4mo ago
  In theory only and all Catholics recognize the authority of the pope. In practice it’s a mess as far as I understand, with a bunch of American catholic groups who rejected church reforms that happened during the 20th century, resulting in people calling themselves catholic who do not actually believe that the Catholic Church has authority over their religion. Add to that the fact that the pope has a cultural influence that goes further than only the catholic audience (lots of Protestant see the pope as important even if that’s not something dictated by Protestantism, a bunch of not really religious people see him as a sort of spiritual leader, etc)
  - Amezarak 4mo ago
    I'm not aware of any Protestants that see the Pope as important except in a very negative way - that's practically the defining feature of Protestantism and one of the few things all the Protestant denominations have in common, whether "low church" or "high church". Heck, it's a struggle to convince many of them that Catholics are Christian at all, and "the Pope is the antichrist" used to be a normal, mainstream comment in American newspapers. It is somewhat a piece of irony that the Pope generally holds a more favorable reputation in the minds of the irreligious in America than the religious. Even the average Catholic likely does not have as much respect for the Pope as some of the commenters here.
    - dgellow 4mo ago
      [dead]
    - lobocinza 4mo ago
      Any serious Protestant (mainline and knowledgeable) listen and give weight when the Pope speaks. They would certainly refuse the Pope authority and inerrancy ex Cathedra but not necessarily disagree with him. Theologically there's much less division between Protestants and Catholics today than in XVI. A large share of disagreeements are due to residual historical animosity.
      - Amezarak 4mo ago
        Every mainline Protestant denomination was basically founded on the idea that they shouldn’t have to listen to the Pope at all. And that was before Papal infallibility was enshrined, which actually didn’t take place until the late 1800s. In America, anti-Catholic sentiment was extremely strong until relatively recently, and then only because religiosity (and thus the reason for it) has declined. All the theological division still exists, it’s just less striking in a world that’s much more irreligious and in countries where vastly different religions (Muslim or Hindu) are present now in real numbers. Practically all the pro-Pope sentiment I’ve seen in my lifetime has been from various flavors of atheists, agnostics, and other areligious types. Catholics themselves generally hold more respect for the office than the person, and Protestants are almost uniformly negative on both.
        joveian 4mo ago
        Vatican II started a major and ongoing reconciliation process leading to things like the "Joint Declaration on the Doctrine of Justification" (1999, quietly resolving the core issues of the reformation) and Pope Francis commemorating the 500th anniversary of the reformation at a Lutheran church in Sweden (2016): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joint_Declaration_on_the_Doctrine_of_Justification https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joint_Declaration_on_the_Doctr... https://www.vatican.va/content/francesco/en/events/event.dir.html/content/vaticanevents/en/2016/10/31/dichiarazione-congiunta.html https://www.vatican.va/content/francesco/en/events/event.dir... I think attitudes vary regionally and by congregation and an ecumenical focus doesn't necessarily translate to a positive perception of the pope but it can and not just all that recently.
- Vaslo 4mo ago
  But all Christians aren’t Catholic which is my point.

jawns 4mo ago

From where does that obligation originate?

cap11235 4mo ago
[dead]

dgellow 4mo ago

As an atheist and even anti-theist I see no such obligation. What a strange thing to say

raldi 4mo ago

Priests will read it and then talk to their congregations about it on Sundays throughout the year, if not explicitly, then in how it shapes their homilies.

michaelsbradley 4mo ago
Some Catholic priests might do that, it’s up to the individuals.
- achierius 4mo ago
  Most will and do. Few people become priests, today especially, without a deep-seated faith and desire to spread/support it.
  - michaelsbradley 4mo ago
    We may have different things in mind. In all my life of being Catholic (I’ll turn 50 this year), I’ve heard less than 5 homilies-sermons that amounted, in whole or part, to a reflection on a papal encyclical. Over time there may be juicy papal quotes that make it into Sunday preaching, but that’s about it. Instead, priests tend to focus on the readings for that Sunday’s Mass and more general themes. That being said, I hope many priests do read an encyclical any time a pope publishes one, but they’re very, very busy most days and weeks, so whether any one priest will commit time to reading a particular encyclical, old and dusty or hot off the presses, will depend on a lot of factors that are as varied as their individual circumstances and personalities.