5 ms·

fantastic work. PSA: if you still think its not the time to fight for your rights for the status quo in privacy you will come to regret it. If you are the type

fantastic work. PSA: if you still think its not the time to fight for your rights for the status quo in privacy you will come to regret it. If you are the type of person who reads this type of news and thinks: "cool the system is working, it'll sort itself out" you will come to regret it. you will need to become more active or it will be taken away

embedding-shape 4mo ago
Literally it'll sort itself out, as the bans are unconstitutional and more, law just takes long time and we have other shit to sort out before starting to panic about 3-5 Cloudflare IPs getting banned for 2 hours a week...
- swiftcoder 4mo ago
  > about 3-5 Cloudflare IPs getting banned You missed a few zeroes there buddy > According to LaLiga itself, around 3,000 IP addresses are blocked every weekend[1] [1] https://cybernews.com/news/cloudflare-spain-laliga-piracy-blocking/ https://cybernews.com/news/cloudflare-spain-laliga-piracy-bl...
  - embedding-shape 4mo ago
    Which IPs that you use daily are actually affected by this though? I've been trying to keep track myself and so far in my months of collecting, I've noted down one service which is unavailable during the matches for me, Docker Hub, everything else seems to work today. Keep in mind, when they first started the blocks, a lot more was taken offline than what gets taken down when a match happens today, as they seem to continuously adjust it. The article you linked is from almost exactly a year ago, fwiw.
    - dbbk 4mo ago
      > Which IPs that you use daily are actually affected by this though? My own company would get taken down.
      - embedding-shape 4mo ago
        Maybe don't use Cloudflare in front of your business if you know that doing so will make it unavailable for 2-3 hours per week? These blocks been happening for years, if you're still letting you be affected, maybe you want to provide a poor service to your users? Most companies who used to use Cloudflare and actually want to be available to users, moved away a long time ago, it's a lot easier than many think.
        swiftcoder 4mo ago
        > Maybe don't use Cloudflare They've also blocked Fastly in the past. I doubt any large CDN is immune. > if you know that doing so will make it unavailable for 2-3 hours per week? You expect companies all across the world to abandon their CDN providers because two countries (Spain and Italy) are being dicks about futbol?
        embedding-shape 4mo ago
        > They've also blocked Fastly in the past. I doubt any large CDN is immune. When was this exactly? Last time I heard about Fastly and La Liga in the same paragraph, was when Fastly and La Liga joined up to combat piracy together, I'm guessing what you speak of predates this? Not finding any information about this online though, either in English nor Spanish. > You expect companies all across the world to abandon their CDN providers because two countries (Spain and Italy) are being dicks about futbol? No, where are you getting that from? Parent says their company gets blocked when the Cloudflare IPs get blocked, so that makes it sound like they're Cloudflare users. If they've experienced these blocks for two years already, yet still are complaining about it instead of fixing it, then I expect them to actually try something else than just complaining about it. But I'm also a pragmatist, and I know not everyone in this country is, so this might be why it feels so obvious to me.
        eskori 4mo ago
        >If they've experienced these blocks for two years already, yet still are complaining about it instead of fixing it, then I expect them to actually try something else than just complaining about it. I get why you would feel like this since it sounds pretty obvious. However, especially if we are being pragmatic, we should consider that reality is a little bit more complicated: - We don't know the terms of their contract: how much does it cost them to use CloudFlare services, if they have a chance of "cancelling" just the CDN (in the case of them having more stuff contracted), etc. - If they decided to pay for CloudFlare services and not some other companies, they might have reasons for not wanting to migrate. - It does not change that a 3rd party unilaterally decided to start this practice (let's remember that even CloudFlare has finally talked about this and they are obviously pissed) affecting other businesses because apparently theirs is more important. Honestly this doesn't affect me, but that doesn't change that I get why they feel like even if they could (which we don't know) move away from CloudFlare, they don't think they should just because Tebas said so. EDIT: Formatting
- nekzn 4mo ago
  In Spain we have a domestic abuse law that is unconstitutional (different prison terms for men and women) and it has been there for a very long time. What do you think are your chances of winning this in the constitutional court?
  - embedding-shape 4mo ago
    Are you talking about "Juzgados de Violencia Sobre la Mujer" or "Organic Act of Protection Measures against Gender Violence" or what are you lamenting? What law exactly and how is it unconstitutional? If you're talking about that "gendered violence" gets different penalties compared to just "general violence", I think that's less about "different prison terms for men and women" but again, maybe you're talking about something else?
    - nekzn 4mo ago
      I’m talking about the LIVG which sets different prison terms for men and women for the same crimes. Check articles 153, 171, and 172 of the Spanish Penal Code.
      - embedding-shape 4mo ago
        It is not a general "men and women get different prison terms for all the same crimes" rule, it applies to specific offences and specific relationship/victim categories. The Constitutional Court has also upheld it, meaning it's quite literally not unconstitutional. For the people following along at home, parent is talking about "Ley Orgánica 1/2004, de 28 de diciembre, de Medidas de Protección Integral contra la Violencia de Género" AKA LIVG, which is a law containing gender-violence provisions aimed at a specific form of inequality in intimate-partner violence, as we (Spain) has a lot of that.
        nekzn 4mo ago
        [flagged]
- dfxm12 4mo ago
  "Constitutional" is a matter of opinion. Don't take for granted that opinions can be bought. Don't take for granted that fighting for your rights in court is cheap. In this case, La Liga has more money then you.
- selfhoster1312 4mo ago
  Law enforcement killing citizens is also unconstitutional, and so was slavery in many countries. What a piece of paper says is far from reality.
  - embedding-shape 4mo ago
    Yes, and we're supposed to have freedom of speech in Spain too, guaranteed by our constitution, yet we do not. What other irrelevant details should we bring up that is currently missing from the conversation?
iLoveOncall 4mo ago
I wish people who state "you have to fight" also said how. The extreme majority of people has no fucking clue about how to act about anything, and it's definitely the biggest blocker.
- boston_clone 4mo ago
  [dead]
- jlaternman 4mo ago
  One of the biggest forces is simply the voice of the people, as demonstrated in threads like this. Note how NordVPN cited growing public sentiment against taking half the internet down in Spain in an attempt to stop streams during games.
- fsflover 4mo ago
  One way is to support https://eff.org https://eff.org or https://edri.org https://edri.org.
  - embedding-shape 4mo ago
    More directly relevant to the context would be some similar Spanish organizations: https://xnet-x.net/en/ https://xnet-x.net/en/, https://criptica.gitlab.io/ https://criptica.gitlab.io/, https://libertadinformacion.cc/ https://libertadinformacion.cc/ and https://laweb.pangea.org/ https://laweb.pangea.org/ are a few, I'm sure there are more I'm missing :)
  - fsflover 4mo ago
    Why downvotes? Here is a relevant link: https://www.eff.org/issues/dmca https://www.eff.org/issues/dmca
    - rvnx 4mo ago
      LaLiga is relying mostly on EU Copyright Directive and DSA to enforce their blocking rights. EFF is a Californian organization holding a big treasure chest (60M USD), in surplus of donations, that does not operate in European courts. In terms of donations, even if you would give them 50'000 USD it's a rounding error in their budget (just put it on the pile). For example Xnet can actually go to Spanish courts but they have less money in total in their bank than the average salary of a random EFF employee.
ChocolateGod 4mo ago
Your messaging I'm afraid actually does the opposite of what it intends to do. Telling people what they should or shouldn't care about tends to turn people off your cause.

embedding-shape 4mo ago

Literally it'll sort itself out, as the bans are unconstitutional and more, law just takes long time and we have other shit to sort out before starting to panic about 3-5 Cloudflare IPs getting banned for 2 hours a week...

swiftcoder 4mo ago
> about 3-5 Cloudflare IPs getting banned You missed a few zeroes there buddy > According to LaLiga itself, around 3,000 IP addresses are blocked every weekend[1] [1] https://cybernews.com/news/cloudflare-spain-laliga-piracy-blocking/ https://cybernews.com/news/cloudflare-spain-laliga-piracy-bl...
- embedding-shape 4mo ago
  Which IPs that you use daily are actually affected by this though? I've been trying to keep track myself and so far in my months of collecting, I've noted down one service which is unavailable during the matches for me, Docker Hub, everything else seems to work today. Keep in mind, when they first started the blocks, a lot more was taken offline than what gets taken down when a match happens today, as they seem to continuously adjust it. The article you linked is from almost exactly a year ago, fwiw.
  - dbbk 4mo ago
    > Which IPs that you use daily are actually affected by this though? My own company would get taken down.
    - embedding-shape 4mo ago
      Maybe don't use Cloudflare in front of your business if you know that doing so will make it unavailable for 2-3 hours per week? These blocks been happening for years, if you're still letting you be affected, maybe you want to provide a poor service to your users? Most companies who used to use Cloudflare and actually want to be available to users, moved away a long time ago, it's a lot easier than many think.
      - swiftcoder 4mo ago
        > Maybe don't use Cloudflare They've also blocked Fastly in the past. I doubt any large CDN is immune. > if you know that doing so will make it unavailable for 2-3 hours per week? You expect companies all across the world to abandon their CDN providers because two countries (Spain and Italy) are being dicks about futbol?
        embedding-shape 4mo ago
        > They've also blocked Fastly in the past. I doubt any large CDN is immune. When was this exactly? Last time I heard about Fastly and La Liga in the same paragraph, was when Fastly and La Liga joined up to combat piracy together, I'm guessing what you speak of predates this? Not finding any information about this online though, either in English nor Spanish. > You expect companies all across the world to abandon their CDN providers because two countries (Spain and Italy) are being dicks about futbol? No, where are you getting that from? Parent says their company gets blocked when the Cloudflare IPs get blocked, so that makes it sound like they're Cloudflare users. If they've experienced these blocks for two years already, yet still are complaining about it instead of fixing it, then I expect them to actually try something else than just complaining about it. But I'm also a pragmatist, and I know not everyone in this country is, so this might be why it feels so obvious to me.
        eskori 4mo ago
        >If they've experienced these blocks for two years already, yet still are complaining about it instead of fixing it, then I expect them to actually try something else than just complaining about it. I get why you would feel like this since it sounds pretty obvious. However, especially if we are being pragmatic, we should consider that reality is a little bit more complicated: - We don't know the terms of their contract: how much does it cost them to use CloudFlare services, if they have a chance of "cancelling" just the CDN (in the case of them having more stuff contracted), etc. - If they decided to pay for CloudFlare services and not some other companies, they might have reasons for not wanting to migrate. - It does not change that a 3rd party unilaterally decided to start this practice (let's remember that even CloudFlare has finally talked about this and they are obviously pissed) affecting other businesses because apparently theirs is more important. Honestly this doesn't affect me, but that doesn't change that I get why they feel like even if they could (which we don't know) move away from CloudFlare, they don't think they should just because Tebas said so. EDIT: Formatting
nekzn 4mo ago
In Spain we have a domestic abuse law that is unconstitutional (different prison terms for men and women) and it has been there for a very long time. What do you think are your chances of winning this in the constitutional court?
- embedding-shape 4mo ago
  Are you talking about "Juzgados de Violencia Sobre la Mujer" or "Organic Act of Protection Measures against Gender Violence" or what are you lamenting? What law exactly and how is it unconstitutional? If you're talking about that "gendered violence" gets different penalties compared to just "general violence", I think that's less about "different prison terms for men and women" but again, maybe you're talking about something else?
  - nekzn 4mo ago
    I’m talking about the LIVG which sets different prison terms for men and women for the same crimes. Check articles 153, 171, and 172 of the Spanish Penal Code.
    - embedding-shape 4mo ago
      It is not a general "men and women get different prison terms for all the same crimes" rule, it applies to specific offences and specific relationship/victim categories. The Constitutional Court has also upheld it, meaning it's quite literally not unconstitutional. For the people following along at home, parent is talking about "Ley Orgánica 1/2004, de 28 de diciembre, de Medidas de Protección Integral contra la Violencia de Género" AKA LIVG, which is a law containing gender-violence provisions aimed at a specific form of inequality in intimate-partner violence, as we (Spain) has a lot of that.
      - nekzn 4mo ago
        [flagged]
dfxm12 4mo ago
"Constitutional" is a matter of opinion. Don't take for granted that opinions can be bought. Don't take for granted that fighting for your rights in court is cheap. In this case, La Liga has more money then you.
selfhoster1312 4mo ago
Law enforcement killing citizens is also unconstitutional, and so was slavery in many countries. What a piece of paper says is far from reality.
- embedding-shape 4mo ago
  Yes, and we're supposed to have freedom of speech in Spain too, guaranteed by our constitution, yet we do not. What other irrelevant details should we bring up that is currently missing from the conversation?

iLoveOncall 4mo ago

I wish people who state "you have to fight" also said how. The extreme majority of people has no fucking clue about how to act about anything, and it's definitely the biggest blocker.

boston_clone 4mo ago
[dead]
jlaternman 4mo ago
One of the biggest forces is simply the voice of the people, as demonstrated in threads like this. Note how NordVPN cited growing public sentiment against taking half the internet down in Spain in an attempt to stop streams during games.
fsflover 4mo ago
One way is to support https://eff.org https://eff.org or https://edri.org https://edri.org.
- embedding-shape 4mo ago
  More directly relevant to the context would be some similar Spanish organizations: https://xnet-x.net/en/ https://xnet-x.net/en/, https://criptica.gitlab.io/ https://criptica.gitlab.io/, https://libertadinformacion.cc/ https://libertadinformacion.cc/ and https://laweb.pangea.org/ https://laweb.pangea.org/ are a few, I'm sure there are more I'm missing :)
- fsflover 4mo ago
  Why downvotes? Here is a relevant link: https://www.eff.org/issues/dmca https://www.eff.org/issues/dmca
  - rvnx 4mo ago
    LaLiga is relying mostly on EU Copyright Directive and DSA to enforce their blocking rights. EFF is a Californian organization holding a big treasure chest (60M USD), in surplus of donations, that does not operate in European courts. In terms of donations, even if you would give them 50'000 USD it's a rounding error in their budget (just put it on the pile). For example Xnet can actually go to Spanish courts but they have less money in total in their bank than the average salary of a random EFF employee.

ChocolateGod 4mo ago

Your messaging I'm afraid actually does the opposite of what it intends to do. Telling people what they should or shouldn't care about tends to turn people off your cause.