8 ms·

When trying to obtain evidence, investigators or regular officers will make frequent recourse to lies and intimidation to get you to admit to things that you ma

by mjh2539 4mo ago

When trying to obtain evidence, investigators or regular officers will make frequent recourse to lies and intimidation to get you to admit to things that you may or may not have done. For example, "If you don't tell us where you were that day, CPS will take your kids away" or "Look, if you just admit what you did, we can let you go" or "We've already detained your wife/brother/mother/father and they've fessed up; just yadayada."

wat10000 4mo ago
I'm well aware of when they will lie, but it's a choice, not an inherent part of the job.
- sidewndr46 4mo ago
  There is no law prohibiting a police department from requiring their officers to lie to you. It absolutely can be part of the job.
  - wat10000 4mo ago
    The claim was not that it can be part of the job. The claim was “A police officer's job is to lie to you.”
    - jrflowers 4mo ago
      Police are trained to lie to you in the course of investigation so “they could choose not to do their job (by conducting an investigation)” doesn’t refute the notion that it’s their job to lie to you, it affirms it. It’s like saying “it’s not cops’ job to lie to you, some of them are dogs whose entire job is sniffing out cocaine with their extraordinary sense of smell”
      - wat10000 4mo ago
        It's like saying it's a pilot's job to wear a uniform. The uniform may be required by their employer, but it's not the job. A law banning pilots from wearing uniforms would not result in jail time for doing their job.
        jrflowers 4mo ago
        A job is a thing an employer trains you and requires you to do hth
        wat10000 4mo ago
        So if I proposed a law banning pilot uniforms, you’d say a reasonable response would be “Are we expecting jailtime for doing their job?”
        jrflowers 4mo ago
        What are you talking about? You asked “how is it the police’s job to lie to me?” and got an answer (it is). It’s not a hypothetical that relies on a thought experiment, it’s just a true statement. You can’t imagine your way into a world where it’s not the police’s job to lie to you.
        wat10000 4mo ago
        Lying is not an inherent part of the job nor is it required by all employers. It is not, in fact, the police's job to lie to me, any more than it's a pilot's job to wear a uniform. Making it illegal for police to lie on the job would have the effect of many police no longer lying on the job, rather than putting all police in jail.
        jrflowers 4mo ago
        > nor is it required by all employers Obviously lying isn’t required by all employers. Most employers aren’t the police (eg it is not the grocery clerk’s job to lie to you.) We are just talking about police, where lying to you is their job. > Making it illegal for police to lie on the job would have the effect of many police no longer lying on the job, rather than putting all police in jail. I still have no idea what you are talking about here. If you made something that the police do every day illegal then they wouldn’t arrest each other for doing it? That is obviously true but unrelated to the fact that it’s the police’s job to lie to you. Or it almost seems like you’re trying to say “if cops couldn’t lie to you then their job description would be different than it is now”, but that would just be another way of you saying that it is their job to lie to you? I’m not sure what this fixation on hypothetical police that don’t lie to you is about, but again, saying “I am picturing imaginary police in my head where it’s not their job to lie to you” does not refute the fact that it’s the police’s job to lie to you, it affirms that it’s their job to lie to you. “All of my contrary evidence exists as stuff I made up in my head” is generally a supportive statement to any notion!

by mjh2539 4mo ago

wat10000 4mo ago

I'm well aware of when they will lie, but it's a choice, not an inherent part of the job.

sidewndr46 4mo ago
There is no law prohibiting a police department from requiring their officers to lie to you. It absolutely can be part of the job.
- wat10000 4mo ago
  The claim was not that it can be part of the job. The claim was “A police officer's job is to lie to you.”
  - jrflowers 4mo ago
    Police are trained to lie to you in the course of investigation so “they could choose not to do their job (by conducting an investigation)” doesn’t refute the notion that it’s their job to lie to you, it affirms it. It’s like saying “it’s not cops’ job to lie to you, some of them are dogs whose entire job is sniffing out cocaine with their extraordinary sense of smell”
    - wat10000 4mo ago
      It's like saying it's a pilot's job to wear a uniform. The uniform may be required by their employer, but it's not the job. A law banning pilots from wearing uniforms would not result in jail time for doing their job.
      - jrflowers 4mo ago
        A job is a thing an employer trains you and requires you to do hth
        wat10000 4mo ago
        So if I proposed a law banning pilot uniforms, you’d say a reasonable response would be “Are we expecting jailtime for doing their job?”
        jrflowers 4mo ago
        What are you talking about? You asked “how is it the police’s job to lie to me?” and got an answer (it is). It’s not a hypothetical that relies on a thought experiment, it’s just a true statement. You can’t imagine your way into a world where it’s not the police’s job to lie to you.
        wat10000 4mo ago
        Lying is not an inherent part of the job nor is it required by all employers. It is not, in fact, the police's job to lie to me, any more than it's a pilot's job to wear a uniform. Making it illegal for police to lie on the job would have the effect of many police no longer lying on the job, rather than putting all police in jail.
        jrflowers 4mo ago
        > nor is it required by all employers Obviously lying isn’t required by all employers. Most employers aren’t the police (eg it is not the grocery clerk’s job to lie to you.) We are just talking about police, where lying to you is their job. > Making it illegal for police to lie on the job would have the effect of many police no longer lying on the job, rather than putting all police in jail. I still have no idea what you are talking about here. If you made something that the police do every day illegal then they wouldn’t arrest each other for doing it? That is obviously true but unrelated to the fact that it’s the police’s job to lie to you. Or it almost seems like you’re trying to say “if cops couldn’t lie to you then their job description would be different than it is now”, but that would just be another way of you saying that it is their job to lie to you? I’m not sure what this fixation on hypothetical police that don’t lie to you is about, but again, saying “I am picturing imaginary police in my head where it’s not their job to lie to you” does not refute the fact that it’s the police’s job to lie to you, it affirms that it’s their job to lie to you. “All of my contrary evidence exists as stuff I made up in my head” is generally a supportive statement to any notion!