6 ms·

What value does "strictly speaking" bring to the discussion? So that you don't have to address any of the issues?

by WhatIsDukkha 4mo ago

drdeca 4mo ago
Accuracy is valuable.
janalsncm 4mo ago
Words matter? DRM means digital rights management, not simply any kind of metadata a person doesn’t like.
- WhatIsDukkha 4mo ago
  Yes... they do matter, perhaps using care in your understanding before attempting to nitpick? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_rights_management#Watermarks https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_rights_management#Wate...
  - fc417fc802 4mo ago
    Perhaps bother to read what you linked before being snarky? > They are not complete DRM mechanisms in their own right, but are used as part of a system for copyright enforcement ... Because watermarks in and of themselves are not, in fact, DRM. Even if I agree that their mass adoption by BigTech is a really bad sign for personal privacy and (eventually) freedom.
    - WhatIsDukkha 4mo ago
      Yes I did read it years ago and again today? If you read my original point you'd see I said "weird DRM glorp" which you and other have tried, and failed to only closely parse "DRM" so that you could nitpick poorly. It is integral and part of DRM systems and certainly "weird DRM glorp" for an actual close reader. DRM is not just "I cant watch X movie because DRM" even if that is the statistically prevalent understanding of DRM. Its a suite of technologies of which watermarking is one of.
      - throawayonthe 4mo ago
        encryption is DRM!!!1!1!1
      - janalsncm 4mo ago
        Watermarking might be a necessary part of DRM but it is not sufficient. As a trivial example, you could watermark someone else’s IP but the watermark would not make it yours. Fundamentally SynthID is not Digital Rights Management because it is not being used for OpenAI or Google to exercise a digital right on the images.
dylan604 4mo ago
Because DRM is primarily used to ensure the content is not shared in a way the owner does not allow. That is not what SynthID is doing. All it does is allow people to know it is a generated image specifically for when it starts to be widely shared on the internet. So strictly speaking brings a lot to the discussion when you actually think about it. Stating that DRM != SynthID is addressing issues where people seem to think that DRM == SynthID. Those people are wrong, and strictly speaking need to be corrected.
- WhatIsDukkha 4mo ago
  You are making a category error -- "this image made by OpenAI" is a drm assertion You wont be able to assert copyright of the picture that you added an OpenAI red bowtie to, thats a DRM issue.
  - janalsncm 4mo ago
    Is OpenAI claiming IP rights over said image? If yes => DRM If no => not DRM
    - WhatIsDukkha 4mo ago
      Yes exactly. They make a constructive IP assertion with the watermark claim of origin that persists across mutation. (ie the "artist" signs their work) They then quitclaim the IP assertion via TOS. These are not equivalent rights and reversions though and now you have an IP encumbered and weird legal state because of the DRM.

What value does "strictly speaking" bring to the discussion? So that you don't have to address any of the issues?

drdeca 4mo ago

Accuracy is valuable.

janalsncm 4mo ago

Words matter? DRM means digital rights management, not simply any kind of metadata a person doesn’t like.

WhatIsDukkha 4mo ago
Yes... they do matter, perhaps using care in your understanding before attempting to nitpick? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_rights_management#Watermarks https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_rights_management#Wate...
- fc417fc802 4mo ago
  Perhaps bother to read what you linked before being snarky? > They are not complete DRM mechanisms in their own right, but are used as part of a system for copyright enforcement ... Because watermarks in and of themselves are not, in fact, DRM. Even if I agree that their mass adoption by BigTech is a really bad sign for personal privacy and (eventually) freedom.
  - WhatIsDukkha 4mo ago
    Yes I did read it years ago and again today? If you read my original point you'd see I said "weird DRM glorp" which you and other have tried, and failed to only closely parse "DRM" so that you could nitpick poorly. It is integral and part of DRM systems and certainly "weird DRM glorp" for an actual close reader. DRM is not just "I cant watch X movie because DRM" even if that is the statistically prevalent understanding of DRM. Its a suite of technologies of which watermarking is one of.
    - throawayonthe 4mo ago
      encryption is DRM!!!1!1!1
    - janalsncm 4mo ago
      Watermarking might be a necessary part of DRM but it is not sufficient. As a trivial example, you could watermark someone else’s IP but the watermark would not make it yours. Fundamentally SynthID is not Digital Rights Management because it is not being used for OpenAI or Google to exercise a digital right on the images.

dylan604 4mo ago

Because DRM is primarily used to ensure the content is not shared in a way the owner does not allow. That is not what SynthID is doing. All it does is allow people to know it is a generated image specifically for when it starts to be widely shared on the internet. So strictly speaking brings a lot to the discussion when you actually think about it. Stating that DRM != SynthID is addressing issues where people seem to think that DRM == SynthID. Those people are wrong, and strictly speaking need to be corrected.

WhatIsDukkha 4mo ago
You are making a category error -- "this image made by OpenAI" is a drm assertion You wont be able to assert copyright of the picture that you added an OpenAI red bowtie to, thats a DRM issue.
- janalsncm 4mo ago
  Is OpenAI claiming IP rights over said image? If yes => DRM If no => not DRM
  - WhatIsDukkha 4mo ago
    Yes exactly. They make a constructive IP assertion with the watermark claim of origin that persists across mutation. (ie the "artist" signs their work) They then quitclaim the IP assertion via TOS. These are not equivalent rights and reversions though and now you have an IP encumbered and weird legal state because of the DRM.