6 ms·

I like History but I'll comment about Lisp in web apps today, if I may. We have a choice of web servers and web libraries (https://github.com/CodyReichert/aweso

I like History but I'll comment about Lisp in web apps today, if I may. We have a choice of web servers and web libraries (https://github.com/CodyReichert/awesome-cl/#web-development https://github.com/CodyReichert/awesome-cl/#web-development), and we live in happy times where HTMX or Datastar are great fit for Lisp -as with any stack. See these Datastar examples built in CL: https://github.com/fsmunoz/datastar-cl https://github.com/fsmunoz/datastar-cl I use and like the Mito ORM too, which comes with automatic migrations and, since last year, a composable query engine (SxQL). Here you will find some screenshots of some of today's web applications built in CL: http://lisp-screenshots.org/ http://lisp-screenshots.org/ and here an opinionated tutorial: https://web-apps-in-lisp.github.io/ https://web-apps-in-lisp.github.io/ One example: ScreenShotBot https://screenshotbot.io/ https://screenshotbot.io/ a successful open-source product and company. It now replaced Facebook's automatic screenshot testing tool (source: their blog). So, web apps in Lisp are possible -with a right amount of learning time and elbow grease. The incremental development and interactive top-level are still precious and unmatched.

ares623 4mo ago
The productivity high folks get from using tools like Claude Code are the same as what one gets from learning a Lisp and using something like Emacs as the editor. There is obviously a difference in capability, but do the cost differences scale linearly? Maybe when the party is over, the lost will yearn for the parentheses to get just a shadow of that high back.
- cess11 4mo ago
  It's not "productivity" that sucks them in, it's the feeling of being seen by an apparently nice and subservient person.
  - satvikpendem 4mo ago
    Lol, come on now, you think it's not productivity and only some sort of feeling of being acquiesced to?
    - cess11 4mo ago
      Yes, absolutely.
      - satvikpendem 4mo ago
        Tell that to all the AI users then because that's a ridiculous assertion that even some notable fraction use it for the purpose you're talking about, much less all. Most people simply use it for information, very few treat it like a person.
        cess11 4mo ago
        Why? The creator of ELIZA tried that, it didn't work then, why would it now? We've had code generation tools for decades, abstracting over code generation has been a solved problem for a long time, and as it happens, this is not in itself a very rewarding practice except for a small segment of professional developers that get a kick out of the elegance of some technique or other. The new thing about these chat bots is that they provide a feeling of being seen and appreciated, and unlike a coworker they seemingly carry very little risk of embarrassment, pain and so on while they also require very little effort compared to human relations.
        satvikpendem 4mo ago
        No, it's that they work extremely well at finding the specific information you're looking for. The vast majority of for example developers aren't using it to bond with a chatbot but to get work done.

ares623 4mo ago

The productivity high folks get from using tools like Claude Code are the same as what one gets from learning a Lisp and using something like Emacs as the editor. There is obviously a difference in capability, but do the cost differences scale linearly? Maybe when the party is over, the lost will yearn for the parentheses to get just a shadow of that high back.

cess11 4mo ago
It's not "productivity" that sucks them in, it's the feeling of being seen by an apparently nice and subservient person.
- satvikpendem 4mo ago
  Lol, come on now, you think it's not productivity and only some sort of feeling of being acquiesced to?
  - cess11 4mo ago
    Yes, absolutely.
    - satvikpendem 4mo ago
      Tell that to all the AI users then because that's a ridiculous assertion that even some notable fraction use it for the purpose you're talking about, much less all. Most people simply use it for information, very few treat it like a person.
      - cess11 4mo ago
        Why? The creator of ELIZA tried that, it didn't work then, why would it now? We've had code generation tools for decades, abstracting over code generation has been a solved problem for a long time, and as it happens, this is not in itself a very rewarding practice except for a small segment of professional developers that get a kick out of the elegance of some technique or other. The new thing about these chat bots is that they provide a feeling of being seen and appreciated, and unlike a coworker they seemingly carry very little risk of embarrassment, pain and so on while they also require very little effort compared to human relations.
        satvikpendem 4mo ago
        No, it's that they work extremely well at finding the specific information you're looking for. The vast majority of for example developers aren't using it to bond with a chatbot but to get work done.