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All of this news of Apple becoming the next evil corporation really pushes me away from buying a Macbook for college in the fall. However, it makes a Product (r

All of this news of Apple becoming the next evil corporation really pushes me away from buying a Macbook for college in the fall. However, it makes a Product (red) Dell with Ubuntu look even better...

unalone 18y ago
Look, don't buy a computer based on what you think of the company. If you're serious about getting stuff done with your computer, get the best damn computer you can, regardless of company reputation, regardless of what other people think about it. If you think that you can live with Ubuntu, with all its problems, then get Ubuntu - but get it because it's cheaper, because it's more tinkerable. Don't get it because of Apple's dickery. Of course Apple is a dick. They insist on having complete control over your user experience. As an Apple user, I will attest that I love it. Some people get a kick out of supermodding their computer. My cofounder loves Linux for that very reason. I like Apple because they do everything for me without thinking. I think this case is over-the-top, but I don't necessarily disagree with Apple's reasoning. If I made a product that had a built-in application system designed to my specifications, I'm not sure if I wouldn't be pissed off at the people who wanted to get around that either. Jail time seems a bit over-the-top, but if it's in Apple's contract that by buying their product you agree not to mess with it, and I'm fairly certain that's been the deal since the iPhone came out, then you might not like that, but if you don't like it, you don't buy the thing with intent to break the law. You get a different phone, one that lets you modify and tinker with things. If you get caught, then you'd better have known that there was a chance of it happening from day one. It's risktaking: always has been, always will be. People get into a bunch of arguments about evil and not-evil. It's not about evil. It's about intent. Apple's intent has always been to control every aspect of their product. They insist on controlling hardware - so you can't get OS X on another company's computer. They insist on controlling software - so you can't free up your iPhone. Some people disagree with that, but it's their prerogative as a company, and it's let Apple consistently create the best products in their respective markets with little debate. If that's evil, then I guess I'm evil, because I think they have the right and I wish more companies were that restrictive. So think about that when you get your computer. Don't worry about all this bullshit arguing either way. Think about the computer itself.
- DenisM 18y ago
  1. Illegal in common use refers to a felony or at least an infraction. Breaking terms of a contract is none of that, therefore "but if it's in Apple's contract that by buying their product you agree not to mess with it ... you don't buy the thing with intent to break the law" is an incorrect frame to describe what happes. The correct frame if "violating the terms of a contract". 2. Breaking the terms of contract does not always lead to problems and is not always wrong - some contracts are unenforcable because they contradict a law, and some are plain morally wrong. Just because something is written down and signed by a person does not make it the law and the truth. 3. Just because someone is pissed does not mean other people lose their rights.
  - unalone 18y ago
    As I said: I won't argue that Apple's move is pretty extreme. I'm not going to get mad at Apple for it, because I understand their reasoning, but I won't support them on it, either. Either way, I wouldn't avoid their products because of that reasoning alone.
- jrockway 18y ago
  If you're serious about getting stuff done with your computer, get the best damn computer you can, regardless of company reputation, regardless of what other people think about it. I'm not sure how this is an argument in favor of Apple. OS X is missing many modern OS features, like automatic updates for all your software and programmable window management (a la Xmonad). If you are just going to use emacs, Firefox, and xterm, using OS X is going to waste a lot of your time compared to a slightly-tweaked Linux install. (With that in mind, if you use GNOME or KDE, you are also going to have your time wasted, although at least everything updates itself in the background, and it's no worse than OS X or Windows.) Of course Apple is a dick. They insist on having complete control over your user experience. Including sending you to prison if you don't do what they tell you. I don't think you quite understand -- if you don't follow their rules, you lose your job, your house, your freedom, and your way of life. (This is not really Apple's fault, since they didn't make the law, but the fact that they are interested in "taking advantage" of laws like this show that they are truly evil. Nobody has threatened me with jail over modifying my OpenMoko phone.) Finally, it's important to keep in mind that Macs are just Dell machines in a pretty case. Intel makes reference designs, and everyone uses those. Macs are truly pretty, but that's all -- they are not particularly functional. In my group of friends, there is about a 50/50 split between Apple laptops and Thinkpads. Among these people, there is not one broken Thinkpad, but there are three broken Macs. All the problems are keyboard-related, so they have to carry around an external keyboard until they have $1500 to buy a new computer. Apple won't fix them. Incidentally, I have watched someone accidentally spill a bottle of water onto his Thinkpad, and the thing still works fine. The water drains through the little drainage holes that go through the laptop, and it's easy to disassemble everything so it can dry out properly. Not so with a Mac -- I hope you like external keyboards. So anyway -- you are not really depriving yourself of anything if you go for a Linux box. The software you'll run on it is the same as anything else. The hardware is identical to what you get in a Mac. The price is probably the same. In fact, I think you'll find that the increased customizability will make the Linux box a better deal.

unalone 18y ago

Look, don't buy a computer based on what you think of the company. If you're serious about getting stuff done with your computer, get the best damn computer you can, regardless of company reputation, regardless of what other people think about it. If you think that you can live with Ubuntu, with all its problems, then get Ubuntu - but get it because it's cheaper, because it's more tinkerable. Don't get it because of Apple's dickery. Of course Apple is a dick. They insist on having complete control over your user experience. As an Apple user, I will attest that I love it. Some people get a kick out of supermodding their computer. My cofounder loves Linux for that very reason. I like Apple because they do everything for me without thinking. I think this case is over-the-top, but I don't necessarily disagree with Apple's reasoning. If I made a product that had a built-in application system designed to my specifications, I'm not sure if I wouldn't be pissed off at the people who wanted to get around that either. Jail time seems a bit over-the-top, but if it's in Apple's contract that by buying their product you agree not to mess with it, and I'm fairly certain that's been the deal since the iPhone came out, then you might not like that, but if you don't like it, you don't buy the thing with intent to break the law. You get a different phone, one that lets you modify and tinker with things. If you get caught, then you'd better have known that there was a chance of it happening from day one. It's risktaking: always has been, always will be. People get into a bunch of arguments about evil and not-evil. It's not about evil. It's about intent. Apple's intent has always been to control every aspect of their product. They insist on controlling hardware - so you can't get OS X on another company's computer. They insist on controlling software - so you can't free up your iPhone. Some people disagree with that, but it's their prerogative as a company, and it's let Apple consistently create the best products in their respective markets with little debate. If that's evil, then I guess I'm evil, because I think they have the right and I wish more companies were that restrictive. So think about that when you get your computer. Don't worry about all this bullshit arguing either way. Think about the computer itself.

DenisM 18y ago
1. Illegal in common use refers to a felony or at least an infraction. Breaking terms of a contract is none of that, therefore "but if it's in Apple's contract that by buying their product you agree not to mess with it ... you don't buy the thing with intent to break the law" is an incorrect frame to describe what happes. The correct frame if "violating the terms of a contract". 2. Breaking the terms of contract does not always lead to problems and is not always wrong - some contracts are unenforcable because they contradict a law, and some are plain morally wrong. Just because something is written down and signed by a person does not make it the law and the truth. 3. Just because someone is pissed does not mean other people lose their rights.
- unalone 18y ago
  As I said: I won't argue that Apple's move is pretty extreme. I'm not going to get mad at Apple for it, because I understand their reasoning, but I won't support them on it, either. Either way, I wouldn't avoid their products because of that reasoning alone.
jrockway 18y ago
If you're serious about getting stuff done with your computer, get the best damn computer you can, regardless of company reputation, regardless of what other people think about it. I'm not sure how this is an argument in favor of Apple. OS X is missing many modern OS features, like automatic updates for all your software and programmable window management (a la Xmonad). If you are just going to use emacs, Firefox, and xterm, using OS X is going to waste a lot of your time compared to a slightly-tweaked Linux install. (With that in mind, if you use GNOME or KDE, you are also going to have your time wasted, although at least everything updates itself in the background, and it's no worse than OS X or Windows.) Of course Apple is a dick. They insist on having complete control over your user experience. Including sending you to prison if you don't do what they tell you. I don't think you quite understand -- if you don't follow their rules, you lose your job, your house, your freedom, and your way of life. (This is not really Apple's fault, since they didn't make the law, but the fact that they are interested in "taking advantage" of laws like this show that they are truly evil. Nobody has threatened me with jail over modifying my OpenMoko phone.) Finally, it's important to keep in mind that Macs are just Dell machines in a pretty case. Intel makes reference designs, and everyone uses those. Macs are truly pretty, but that's all -- they are not particularly functional. In my group of friends, there is about a 50/50 split between Apple laptops and Thinkpads. Among these people, there is not one broken Thinkpad, but there are three broken Macs. All the problems are keyboard-related, so they have to carry around an external keyboard until they have $1500 to buy a new computer. Apple won't fix them. Incidentally, I have watched someone accidentally spill a bottle of water onto his Thinkpad, and the thing still works fine. The water drains through the little drainage holes that go through the laptop, and it's easy to disassemble everything so it can dry out properly. Not so with a Mac -- I hope you like external keyboards. So anyway -- you are not really depriving yourself of anything if you go for a Linux box. The software you'll run on it is the same as anything else. The hardware is identical to what you get in a Mac. The price is probably the same. In fact, I think you'll find that the increased customizability will make the Linux box a better deal.