6 ms·

This article fails to mention GrapheneOS. The article starts with Murena, Punkt, Volla which are all based on Android. If you do this, then imho you must menti

by johnsea 4mo ago

This article fails to mention GrapheneOS. The article starts with Murena, Punkt, Volla which are all based on Android. If you do this, then imho you must mention GrapheneOS, the by far better option (updates, privacy, security, organisation). Google Pixel with GrapheneOS is the best non-Google phone... ;-)

gib444 4mo ago
GrapheneOS requires a Google Pixel (currently) though. That's why they omitted it I imagine
- Freak_NL 4mo ago
  [flagged]
  - someguyiguess 4mo ago
    You might want to re-read the headline.
  - gib444 4mo ago
    Please try a bit harder to respond within the context
hulitu 4mo ago
> This article fails to mention GrapheneOS. From Wikipedia: "GrapheneOS[b] (/ˈɡræfiːn.oʊˈɛs/) is a free and open-source, privacy- and security-focused, Android-based operating system" So still Android.
gunalx 4mo ago
As much as I like graphene it is literary running on google hardware (atm) and uses asop. Even if it is a really good option is you want to run degoogled and secure android.
- throawayonthe 4mo ago
  Murena (/e/ os), Punkt, Volla use aosp
- jasonvorhe 4mo ago
  You don't need any Google stuff on it. Isolated Play Services is an option, so is Play Store. It's not installed ootb. I don't get why you'd prefer to run less secure options on hardware that isn't on par with Pixels or iPhones and expect to get a secure OS.
- subscribed 4mo ago
  I mean.... Android is aosp. And if you want to run degoogled GrapheneOS you just don't install Google services. Out of the box it does NOT contain any - but /e/OS ships with the privileged microG, which means that Android Auto or Google Play Store have privileged access to the phone. So I'm not sure how can you suggest GOS is less "degoogled" while not shipping anything but allowing to install sandboxed / constrained play services, while comparing it to /e/OS which ships with a privileged plug. Also, if you want to run a secure android, that's not /e/OS either.
  - bornfreddy 4mo ago
    That privileged plug in /e/os makes push notifications work, and you can enable just those and leave Android Auto, G Play Store and whatnot disabled. Not much privacy risk - I think? On the other hand, while GOS is running Google services sandboxed, they are still running and have access to internet. If you try enabling them only when you need push notifications, they will break - notifications stop coming. Neither system is optimal - can we please get microG sandboxed on GOS, pretty please?
    - microtonal 4mo ago
      Ehm, microG on /e/OS is talking to Google all the time. They also use proprietary Google blobs for passing basic Play Integrity. /e/OS also gives a bunch of Google apps (including Google Maps and Android Auto) privileged access (you can find the signing key fingerprints in the source code of the /e/OS microG fork).
izacus 4mo ago
GrapheneOS is a Google OS - it's a slightly modified Android developed by Google and continues to be dependent on Google for updates. (Murena /e/OS is similar. No, slamming the downvote button won't make either of them any less Google dependant OSes.)
- em-bee 4mo ago
  you are being downvoted because the article considers de-googled versions of android acceptable. and neither are dependent on google in the sense that even if google stopped publishing android source altogether they could continue to develop the versions they already have. that's the whole point of Free Software and Open Source.
  - izacus 4mo ago
    Yeah, and that's utter nonsense. Noone is really stepping up to develop Android beyond repackaging it. If Google decides to remove a feature, GrapheneOS and other forks will end up without it too. If they stop publishing security patches, the forks end up insecure too. It's just like all the Chrome "forks" when ManifestV2 died. None of them survived for more than a few versions until maintainers lost interest. Calling any of these Google free is downright lying.
    - em-bee 4mo ago
      ok, that's probably not the popular opinion, but a reasonable argument. i think though that the chrome manifestV2 support example is not really applicable to your argument though. chrome still exists, and the removal of a feature is not the same thing as stopping to release sources altogether. if google had stopped releasing chrome sources then some chrome forks with v2 support would still exist. same i believe would be true if google stopped android releases. same goes for security patches. a lot of effort in forks now is put in keeping up with android (and chrome) releases. if those releases stop then the effort would be able to shift towards security patches. would it be better or worse? hard to say. depends on the resources the forks would manage to gather to do the work.
    - 4mo ago
abraham 4mo ago
GrapheneOS doesn't fit the criteria of the list. https://grapheneos.org/faq#preinstalled-devices https://grapheneos.org/faq#preinstalled-devices
- fph 4mo ago
  You can buy phones with Graphene preinstalled: https://shop.nitrokey.com/shop https://shop.nitrokey.com/shop , https://zextons.co.uk/categories/DeGoogled-Phones https://zextons.co.uk/categories/DeGoogled-Phones , if you really want.
  - lproven 4mo ago
    I wrote the article. I think you did not read it. Read the last paragraph in particular. Not the bootnote, in the main text.
InvertedRhodium 4mo ago
I’m waiting to see what they come up with for the Motorola partnership. Hopefully it’s interesting.
ctdinjeu2 4mo ago
[dead]
microtonal 4mo ago
It's incredibly funny, because a lot of these companies behave the same as the duopoly that people try to get away from. Murena's CEO repeatedly stated that security hardening is only needed for secret agents and criminals (explicitly calling out child porn), pushing the same narratives as the people pushing chat control, age verification, etc. Volla and Murena are pushing Unified Attestation, a similar system to Google Play Strong Integrity, that they can use to block competition. Besides that, both Murena and Volla have abysmal security and Volla is mostly in the business of German-washing Chinese smartphones. E.g. their Volla Phone Quintus is a smartphone designed by an Emirates company, largely produced in China, that can be had for 150 Euro new on the ebay.ae .
lproven 4mo ago
> This article fails to mention GrapheneOS. No, it does not. I wrote the article. The article is not about phone OSes. The article is about companies that will sell you a NEW non-Google non-Apple smartphone. The article is not about hardware, or phones. The article is about PHONE VENDORS. Also, go read the actual article and read the final paragraph, then act on it.

by johnsea 4mo ago

gib444 4mo ago

GrapheneOS requires a Google Pixel (currently) though. That's why they omitted it I imagine

Freak_NL 4mo ago
[flagged]
- someguyiguess 4mo ago
  You might want to re-read the headline.
- gib444 4mo ago
  Please try a bit harder to respond within the context

hulitu 4mo ago

> This article fails to mention GrapheneOS. From Wikipedia: "GrapheneOS[b] (/ˈɡræfiːn.oʊˈɛs/) is a free and open-source, privacy- and security-focused, Android-based operating system" So still Android.

gunalx 4mo ago

As much as I like graphene it is literary running on google hardware (atm) and uses asop. Even if it is a really good option is you want to run degoogled and secure android.

throawayonthe 4mo ago
Murena (/e/ os), Punkt, Volla use aosp
jasonvorhe 4mo ago
You don't need any Google stuff on it. Isolated Play Services is an option, so is Play Store. It's not installed ootb. I don't get why you'd prefer to run less secure options on hardware that isn't on par with Pixels or iPhones and expect to get a secure OS.
subscribed 4mo ago
I mean.... Android is aosp. And if you want to run degoogled GrapheneOS you just don't install Google services. Out of the box it does NOT contain any - but /e/OS ships with the privileged microG, which means that Android Auto or Google Play Store have privileged access to the phone. So I'm not sure how can you suggest GOS is less "degoogled" while not shipping anything but allowing to install sandboxed / constrained play services, while comparing it to /e/OS which ships with a privileged plug. Also, if you want to run a secure android, that's not /e/OS either.
- bornfreddy 4mo ago
  That privileged plug in /e/os makes push notifications work, and you can enable just those and leave Android Auto, G Play Store and whatnot disabled. Not much privacy risk - I think? On the other hand, while GOS is running Google services sandboxed, they are still running and have access to internet. If you try enabling them only when you need push notifications, they will break - notifications stop coming. Neither system is optimal - can we please get microG sandboxed on GOS, pretty please?
  - microtonal 4mo ago
    Ehm, microG on /e/OS is talking to Google all the time. They also use proprietary Google blobs for passing basic Play Integrity. /e/OS also gives a bunch of Google apps (including Google Maps and Android Auto) privileged access (you can find the signing key fingerprints in the source code of the /e/OS microG fork).

izacus 4mo ago

GrapheneOS is a Google OS - it's a slightly modified Android developed by Google and continues to be dependent on Google for updates. (Murena /e/OS is similar. No, slamming the downvote button won't make either of them any less Google dependant OSes.)

em-bee 4mo ago
you are being downvoted because the article considers de-googled versions of android acceptable. and neither are dependent on google in the sense that even if google stopped publishing android source altogether they could continue to develop the versions they already have. that's the whole point of Free Software and Open Source.
- izacus 4mo ago
  Yeah, and that's utter nonsense. Noone is really stepping up to develop Android beyond repackaging it. If Google decides to remove a feature, GrapheneOS and other forks will end up without it too. If they stop publishing security patches, the forks end up insecure too. It's just like all the Chrome "forks" when ManifestV2 died. None of them survived for more than a few versions until maintainers lost interest. Calling any of these Google free is downright lying.
  - em-bee 4mo ago
    ok, that's probably not the popular opinion, but a reasonable argument. i think though that the chrome manifestV2 support example is not really applicable to your argument though. chrome still exists, and the removal of a feature is not the same thing as stopping to release sources altogether. if google had stopped releasing chrome sources then some chrome forks with v2 support would still exist. same i believe would be true if google stopped android releases. same goes for security patches. a lot of effort in forks now is put in keeping up with android (and chrome) releases. if those releases stop then the effort would be able to shift towards security patches. would it be better or worse? hard to say. depends on the resources the forks would manage to gather to do the work.
  - 4mo ago

abraham 4mo ago

GrapheneOS doesn't fit the criteria of the list. https://grapheneos.org/faq#preinstalled-devices https://grapheneos.org/faq#preinstalled-devices

fph 4mo ago
You can buy phones with Graphene preinstalled: https://shop.nitrokey.com/shop https://shop.nitrokey.com/shop , https://zextons.co.uk/categories/DeGoogled-Phones https://zextons.co.uk/categories/DeGoogled-Phones , if you really want.
- lproven 4mo ago
  I wrote the article. I think you did not read it. Read the last paragraph in particular. Not the bootnote, in the main text.

InvertedRhodium 4mo ago

I’m waiting to see what they come up with for the Motorola partnership. Hopefully it’s interesting.

ctdinjeu2 4mo ago

[dead]

microtonal 4mo ago

It's incredibly funny, because a lot of these companies behave the same as the duopoly that people try to get away from. Murena's CEO repeatedly stated that security hardening is only needed for secret agents and criminals (explicitly calling out child porn), pushing the same narratives as the people pushing chat control, age verification, etc. Volla and Murena are pushing Unified Attestation, a similar system to Google Play Strong Integrity, that they can use to block competition. Besides that, both Murena and Volla have abysmal security and Volla is mostly in the business of German-washing Chinese smartphones. E.g. their Volla Phone Quintus is a smartphone designed by an Emirates company, largely produced in China, that can be had for 150 Euro new on the ebay.ae .

lproven 4mo ago

> This article fails to mention GrapheneOS. No, it does not. I wrote the article. The article is not about phone OSes. The article is about companies that will sell you a NEW non-Google non-Apple smartphone. The article is not about hardware, or phones. The article is about PHONE VENDORS. Also, go read the actual article and read the final paragraph, then act on it.