11 ms·

> WhatsApp claims to be end-to-end-encrypted, but it's not open-source And explicitly does not encrypt metadata. Meanwhile NSA top brass publicly stated, "We

by hellcow 4mo ago

> WhatsApp claims to be end-to-end-encrypted, but it's not open-source And explicitly does not encrypt metadata. Meanwhile NSA top brass publicly stated, "We kill people based on metadata."

2ndorderthought 4mo ago
I imagine in 2027 people will be getting killed over vibes. Does make you wonder what kind of people they kill or how many. I can't think of a lot of crimes whose metadata warrants being killed for personally.
- xethos 4mo ago
  > I can't think of a lot of crimes whose metadata warrants being killed for personally You're (literally) missing links then. If A is a high-value target that we look at closely (because they're a high-value target), what if B frequently contacts A? If C, D, and E always recieve messages from B immediately following A messaging B? What about times? Is B messaging F at a consistant time, and never outside of that? Is A only messaging G, at a set time, with G's phone immediately being put into (ineffective) airplane mode immediately before and after? Facebook built their business on the social graph, but the CIA's been at this for decades
  - 2ndorderthought 4mo ago
    Thanks for explaining. I guess we are talking about espionage or something like that. I've been so focused on the rise of domestic surveillance lately that I forgot about the noncitizen aspects. Which is ridiculous but at the same time, it does seem like a trillion dollar focus lately.
    - xethos 4mo ago
      My examples are all based on the CIA and NSA playbook though, as it was the NSA director that said the quiet part out loud, explicitly, in front of Congress. The NSA is effectively America's red team, an offensive arm, meaning they (should be) focused on threats (percieved or otherwise) outside the country The FBI has been much quieter about this though - there has yet to be a Snowden-for-the-FBI, though they would be one of the agencies I would fully expect to be doing similar work domestically. As this becomes more well-known, I would expect state and county police to start looking into data and metadata as well. In some cases, they already are [0] - even if some aspects of that case are less relevant today (Google Maps no longer uploads location history, though cell tower trilateration is getting more accurate, not less). It's far more prevalent than most people realize, though I invite you to consider which you'd rather have when building a second-by-second profile of a person's life: the message contents, or the metadata? [0] https://www.wired.com/story/find-my-iphone-arson-case/ https://www.wired.com/story/find-my-iphone-arson-case/
      - 2ndorderthought 4mo ago
        Metadata would be more powerful in 9 out of 10 cases. Message contents could be invaluable in some cases too. Interesting to think about
- Projectiboga 4mo ago
  In the dystopian novel Nineteen Eighty-Four, thoughtcrime, also known as crimethink in the official language of Newspeak, is the offense of thinking in ways not approved by the ruling Ingsoc party. It describes the intellectual actions of a person who entertains and holds politically unacceptable thoughts; thus the government of The Party controls the speech, actions, and thoughts of the citizens of Oceania. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thoughtcrime https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thoughtcrime
  - 2ndorderthought 4mo ago
    It's a great book! It does make you wonder what s future with neural link and data centers in every city looks like under a fascist regime.
- tardedmeme 4mo ago
  Isn't this already happening? It's why the war department uses ChatGPT and Claude to target drone strikes. It's why Anthropic had to make a public scene to pretend that wasn't happening.
Razengan 4mo ago
> Meanwhile NSA top brass publicly stated, "We kill people based on metadata. Can someone post a link to that?
- LarsKrimi 4mo ago
  Maybe just search for it and pick a source you trust. Take the search term "kill people based on metadata" and no noise comes up, just tons of articles about General Hayden's interview and related
- deleted 4mo ago
  [deleted]
- ThePowerOfFuet 4mo ago
  Since you're too lazy to do even a precursory search: https://youtube.com/watch?v=NSaGl2uO5w https://youtube.com/watch?v=NSaGl2uO5w
  - Razengan 4mo ago
    Cause that sort of shit sounded like ambiguous clickbait

by hellcow 4mo ago

> WhatsApp claims to be end-to-end-encrypted, but it's not open-source And explicitly does not encrypt metadata. Meanwhile NSA top brass publicly stated, "We kill people based on metadata."

2ndorderthought 4mo ago

I imagine in 2027 people will be getting killed over vibes. Does make you wonder what kind of people they kill or how many. I can't think of a lot of crimes whose metadata warrants being killed for personally.

xethos 4mo ago
> I can't think of a lot of crimes whose metadata warrants being killed for personally You're (literally) missing links then. If A is a high-value target that we look at closely (because they're a high-value target), what if B frequently contacts A? If C, D, and E always recieve messages from B immediately following A messaging B? What about times? Is B messaging F at a consistant time, and never outside of that? Is A only messaging G, at a set time, with G's phone immediately being put into (ineffective) airplane mode immediately before and after? Facebook built their business on the social graph, but the CIA's been at this for decades
- 2ndorderthought 4mo ago
  Thanks for explaining. I guess we are talking about espionage or something like that. I've been so focused on the rise of domestic surveillance lately that I forgot about the noncitizen aspects. Which is ridiculous but at the same time, it does seem like a trillion dollar focus lately.
  - xethos 4mo ago
    My examples are all based on the CIA and NSA playbook though, as it was the NSA director that said the quiet part out loud, explicitly, in front of Congress. The NSA is effectively America's red team, an offensive arm, meaning they (should be) focused on threats (percieved or otherwise) outside the country The FBI has been much quieter about this though - there has yet to be a Snowden-for-the-FBI, though they would be one of the agencies I would fully expect to be doing similar work domestically. As this becomes more well-known, I would expect state and county police to start looking into data and metadata as well. In some cases, they already are [0] - even if some aspects of that case are less relevant today (Google Maps no longer uploads location history, though cell tower trilateration is getting more accurate, not less). It's far more prevalent than most people realize, though I invite you to consider which you'd rather have when building a second-by-second profile of a person's life: the message contents, or the metadata? [0] https://www.wired.com/story/find-my-iphone-arson-case/ https://www.wired.com/story/find-my-iphone-arson-case/
    - 2ndorderthought 4mo ago
      Metadata would be more powerful in 9 out of 10 cases. Message contents could be invaluable in some cases too. Interesting to think about
Projectiboga 4mo ago
In the dystopian novel Nineteen Eighty-Four, thoughtcrime, also known as crimethink in the official language of Newspeak, is the offense of thinking in ways not approved by the ruling Ingsoc party. It describes the intellectual actions of a person who entertains and holds politically unacceptable thoughts; thus the government of The Party controls the speech, actions, and thoughts of the citizens of Oceania. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thoughtcrime https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thoughtcrime
- 2ndorderthought 4mo ago
  It's a great book! It does make you wonder what s future with neural link and data centers in every city looks like under a fascist regime.
tardedmeme 4mo ago
Isn't this already happening? It's why the war department uses ChatGPT and Claude to target drone strikes. It's why Anthropic had to make a public scene to pretend that wasn't happening.

Razengan 4mo ago

> Meanwhile NSA top brass publicly stated, "We kill people based on metadata. Can someone post a link to that?

LarsKrimi 4mo ago
Maybe just search for it and pick a source you trust. Take the search term "kill people based on metadata" and no noise comes up, just tons of articles about General Hayden's interview and related
deleted 4mo ago
[deleted]
ThePowerOfFuet 4mo ago
Since you're too lazy to do even a precursory search: https://youtube.com/watch?v=NSaGl2uO5w https://youtube.com/watch?v=NSaGl2uO5w
- Razengan 4mo ago
  Cause that sort of shit sounded like ambiguous clickbait