4 ms·

> but because it can give ideas to other countries doing the same This is happening right now in Europe. You have systems like Blik, Twint, Swish etc. I know

> but because it can give ideas to other countries doing the same This is happening right now in Europe. You have systems like Blik, Twint, Swish etc. I know that at least Blik is working on making it possible for international payments.

alexaholic 4mo ago
> I know that at least Blik is working on making it possible for international payments International transfers between MB Way (PT) and Bizum (ES) are working e.g. via phone number. See also https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Payments_Alliance https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Payments_Alliance
ginko 4mo ago
What's needed in Europe is federation of the existing systems, not one winner taking it all.
- nolok 4mo ago
  That's exactly what's happening, see the EU digital euro scheme. It's planned to be free of fees too, modeled around how SEPA was done for wires. There has been massive resistance by the incumbents of course, including banks (since they too charge a fee on top of visa). It's been in the backlog for years but the US sanction against ICC judges leading to them being cut off from most things including payment triggered a renewal of it.
  - 202508042147 4mo ago
    That's what I am afraid of. The resistance from the incumbents plus the external pressure from the US (and China?) might be to strong. Better go with a federated approach, mandating all the different payment apps available all over the EU to allow connections from other participants. In any case, the digital euro seems to take years (earlier expected date is 2029). I don't understand why it takes so long.
    - bobthepanda 4mo ago
      It seems right now the European thinking is that the US might just do it regardless so may as well prepare.
  - cassepipe 4mo ago
    From what I remember the bank started to federate around a payment network to outcompete the digital euro. I hope the digital euro wins, I hope they don't fumble it.
  - janpeuker 4mo ago
    The European Payments Initiative (Wero) made the mistake of only aiming for Peer-to-Peer QR code payments, carefully avoiding competing with cards so each country could keep their card schemes (Cartes Bancaires, Girocard etc). I don't think it will ever even _compete_ with cards in the near future.
- markvdb 4mo ago
  EPA [0] and EPI [1] are doing that. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Payments_Initiative https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Payments_Initiative [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Payments_Alliance https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Payments_Alliance
kakacik 4mo ago
Twint is in Switzerland for more than 10 years, hardly a new idea
- 202508042147 4mo ago
  Twint is great, I wish more Swiss based people would use it. In the expat community most are using Visa/MC through Apple Pay. I have no idea why.
- hocuspocus 4mo ago
  Swish is even older. The issues with Twint: - Switzerland hasn't gotten Apple to open up NFC payments at the same conditions as the EEE, at least not yet. - Twint is part of the EMPSA which hasn't really delivered anything tangible. On the contrary there's now a real push from EPI and EuroPA to make Wero interoperable with non-Eurozone networks. Hopefully Twint will get on board too. - Transaction fees are on the higher side, consequently merchants don't have any reason to push Twint or disincentive debit card payments.
  - madspindel 4mo ago
    > Twint is part of the EMPSA which hasn't really delivered anything tangible. It's easy to see why. Both Swish and Vipps is part of EMPSA. In Sweden, everyone uses Swish. Vipps (from Norway I believe) wants to expand to Sweden but no one is using it since it's not compatible with Swish. So making it compatible would potentially hurt the business of Swish. Regulation is needed. Otherwise it will never happen.
    - hocuspocus 4mo ago
      If EPI / Wero reach a critical mass then hopefully this will change, as non-Eurozone countries will have a direct interest in making the local mobile payment solution accept the one used by an area of 350+ million people. Then the EPI protocol could become the least common denominator and you might be able to use Vipps, Twint, Blik... in Sweden? I believe similar scenarios are happening in Asia around Alipay and UPI, for instance I think I can use the Korean Kakao Pay on a payment terminal in Japan, because both sides are compatible with Alipay+.
BrandiATMuhkuh 4mo ago
since the end of last year we have had instant payment in the EU. no more need for Mastercard/VISA. what I see missing is education. That's why I'm telling each merchant I come bye to use it. super simple.

alexaholic 4mo ago

> I know that at least Blik is working on making it possible for international payments International transfers between MB Way (PT) and Bizum (ES) are working e.g. via phone number. See also https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Payments_Alliance https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Payments_Alliance

ginko 4mo ago

What's needed in Europe is federation of the existing systems, not one winner taking it all.

nolok 4mo ago
That's exactly what's happening, see the EU digital euro scheme. It's planned to be free of fees too, modeled around how SEPA was done for wires. There has been massive resistance by the incumbents of course, including banks (since they too charge a fee on top of visa). It's been in the backlog for years but the US sanction against ICC judges leading to them being cut off from most things including payment triggered a renewal of it.
- 202508042147 4mo ago
  That's what I am afraid of. The resistance from the incumbents plus the external pressure from the US (and China?) might be to strong. Better go with a federated approach, mandating all the different payment apps available all over the EU to allow connections from other participants. In any case, the digital euro seems to take years (earlier expected date is 2029). I don't understand why it takes so long.
  - bobthepanda 4mo ago
    It seems right now the European thinking is that the US might just do it regardless so may as well prepare.
- cassepipe 4mo ago
  From what I remember the bank started to federate around a payment network to outcompete the digital euro. I hope the digital euro wins, I hope they don't fumble it.
- janpeuker 4mo ago
  The European Payments Initiative (Wero) made the mistake of only aiming for Peer-to-Peer QR code payments, carefully avoiding competing with cards so each country could keep their card schemes (Cartes Bancaires, Girocard etc). I don't think it will ever even _compete_ with cards in the near future.
markvdb 4mo ago
EPA [0] and EPI [1] are doing that. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Payments_Initiative https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Payments_Initiative [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Payments_Alliance https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Payments_Alliance

kakacik 4mo ago

Twint is in Switzerland for more than 10 years, hardly a new idea

202508042147 4mo ago
Twint is great, I wish more Swiss based people would use it. In the expat community most are using Visa/MC through Apple Pay. I have no idea why.
hocuspocus 4mo ago
Swish is even older. The issues with Twint: - Switzerland hasn't gotten Apple to open up NFC payments at the same conditions as the EEE, at least not yet. - Twint is part of the EMPSA which hasn't really delivered anything tangible. On the contrary there's now a real push from EPI and EuroPA to make Wero interoperable with non-Eurozone networks. Hopefully Twint will get on board too. - Transaction fees are on the higher side, consequently merchants don't have any reason to push Twint or disincentive debit card payments.
- madspindel 4mo ago
  > Twint is part of the EMPSA which hasn't really delivered anything tangible. It's easy to see why. Both Swish and Vipps is part of EMPSA. In Sweden, everyone uses Swish. Vipps (from Norway I believe) wants to expand to Sweden but no one is using it since it's not compatible with Swish. So making it compatible would potentially hurt the business of Swish. Regulation is needed. Otherwise it will never happen.
  - hocuspocus 4mo ago
    If EPI / Wero reach a critical mass then hopefully this will change, as non-Eurozone countries will have a direct interest in making the local mobile payment solution accept the one used by an area of 350+ million people. Then the EPI protocol could become the least common denominator and you might be able to use Vipps, Twint, Blik... in Sweden? I believe similar scenarios are happening in Asia around Alipay and UPI, for instance I think I can use the Korean Kakao Pay on a payment terminal in Japan, because both sides are compatible with Alipay+.

BrandiATMuhkuh 4mo ago

since the end of last year we have had instant payment in the EU. no more need for Mastercard/VISA. what I see missing is education. That's why I'm telling each merchant I come bye to use it. super simple.