6 ms·

> At Chrome's scale, the climate bill for one model push, paid in atmospheric CO2 by the entire planet, is between six thousand and sixty thousand tonnes of CO2

by jve 5mo ago

> At Chrome's scale, the climate bill for one model push, paid in atmospheric CO2 by the entire planet, is between six thousand and sixty thousand tonnes of CO2-equivalent emissions, depending on how many devices receive the push. Environmental analysis for operations? Not a fan of thinking in such terms. > For users on capped mobile data plans, particularly in regions where smartphone-as-only-internet is dominant (much of Africa, much of South and Southeast Asia, most of Latin America), 4 GB of unrequested download is on the order of a month's data allowance, vapourised by Chrome on the user's behalf. Google has not, to my knowledge, published any analysis of the welfare impact of this on the populations whose internet access is metered. THIS is a valid concern. Otherwise I'm not buying into "ask for consent because of dependency X". Users don't like questions/consents. However OS (at least windows) has an way to set network connection as a metered so software can make informed decisions. Also Android has "Data Saver" function which should also be honored by software.

PatronBernard 5mo ago
> Environmental analysis for operations? Not a fan of thinking in such terms. Why not? It's about 60 000 London - New York City flights by the way (https://www.theguardian.com/environment/ng-interactive/2019/jul/19/carbon-calculator-how-taking-one-flight-emits-as-much-as-many-people-do-in-a-year https://www.theguardian.com/environment/ng-interactive/2019/...). And what's the benefit again?
- deleted 5mo ago
  [deleted]
SwellJoe 5mo ago
I know it takes extra steps to make Android perform OS or app updates over LTE. I doubt it's downloading a 4GB model over LTE unless the user has chosen to perform updates over LTE.
pu_pe 5mo ago
Some parts of the anti-AI movement are becoming so unhinged that now any use of compute is considered an environmental threat. This degrowth mentality needs to die.
- wartywhoa23 5mo ago
  Should I reminder you what unlimited growth means and how it ends up in biology? Society/technology is no exception.
  - pu_pe 5mo ago
    No need for unlimited growth, just normal sustainable progress like the one that allows you and me to communicate here after centuries of technological progress.
    - account42 4mo ago
      The "AI" craze has been very far from normal or sustainable.
    - PatronBernard 5mo ago
      Ah yes, sustainable progress, like we're doing now?
    - vrganj 4mo ago
      The "normal sustainable progress" has already pushed us to the brink of extinction. AI is rapidly accelerating our resource use, with nothing good to show for it.
      - lxgr 4mo ago
        How exactly are we "on the brink of extinction"? ("We" as in humans; many other species are obviously not as lucky.) We are probably on the brink of very bad consequences for a signification fraction of all humans (up to and including all of them, to some extent), which is a huge problem that needs to be addressed. But what do you gain by incorrectly labeling that as "extinction"? Because you do definitely lose credibility for it, similarly to everybody using hyperbolic language such as "boiling the oceans" etc.
    - pier25 4mo ago
      > No need for unlimited growth Well then at some point you need to stop growing.
mschuster91 5mo ago
> However OS (at least windows) has an way to set network connection as a metered so software can make informed decisions. Also Android has "Data Saver" function which should also be honored by software. Unfortunately, that automation is unreliable. It doesn't work across operating systems - Windows laptops won't enable data-saver mode when connected to iPhones and macOS laptops won't when connected to Android phones, and neither will enable it when connected to, say, public transport wifi. And even if the OS has the information, websites can't reliably use it either. Firefox and Safari both don't implement the NetworkInformation API [1]. [1] https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API/NetworkInformation https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API/NetworkInfo...

by jve 5mo ago

PatronBernard 5mo ago

> Environmental analysis for operations? Not a fan of thinking in such terms. Why not? It's about 60 000 London - New York City flights by the way (https://www.theguardian.com/environment/ng-interactive/2019/jul/19/carbon-calculator-how-taking-one-flight-emits-as-much-as-many-people-do-in-a-year https://www.theguardian.com/environment/ng-interactive/2019/...). And what's the benefit again?

deleted 5mo ago
[deleted]

SwellJoe 5mo ago

I know it takes extra steps to make Android perform OS or app updates over LTE. I doubt it's downloading a 4GB model over LTE unless the user has chosen to perform updates over LTE.

pu_pe 5mo ago

Some parts of the anti-AI movement are becoming so unhinged that now any use of compute is considered an environmental threat. This degrowth mentality needs to die.

wartywhoa23 5mo ago
Should I reminder you what unlimited growth means and how it ends up in biology? Society/technology is no exception.
- pu_pe 5mo ago
  No need for unlimited growth, just normal sustainable progress like the one that allows you and me to communicate here after centuries of technological progress.
  - account42 4mo ago
    The "AI" craze has been very far from normal or sustainable.
  - PatronBernard 5mo ago
    Ah yes, sustainable progress, like we're doing now?
  - vrganj 4mo ago
    The "normal sustainable progress" has already pushed us to the brink of extinction. AI is rapidly accelerating our resource use, with nothing good to show for it.
    - lxgr 4mo ago
      How exactly are we "on the brink of extinction"? ("We" as in humans; many other species are obviously not as lucky.) We are probably on the brink of very bad consequences for a signification fraction of all humans (up to and including all of them, to some extent), which is a huge problem that needs to be addressed. But what do you gain by incorrectly labeling that as "extinction"? Because you do definitely lose credibility for it, similarly to everybody using hyperbolic language such as "boiling the oceans" etc.
  - pier25 4mo ago
    > No need for unlimited growth Well then at some point you need to stop growing.

mschuster91 5mo ago

> However OS (at least windows) has an way to set network connection as a metered so software can make informed decisions. Also Android has "Data Saver" function which should also be honored by software. Unfortunately, that automation is unreliable. It doesn't work across operating systems - Windows laptops won't enable data-saver mode when connected to iPhones and macOS laptops won't when connected to Android phones, and neither will enable it when connected to, say, public transport wifi. And even if the OS has the information, websites can't reliably use it either. Firefox and Safari both don't implement the NetworkInformation API [1]. [1] https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API/NetworkInformation https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API/NetworkInfo...