6 ms·

I have many questions. How would A/B testing work in the scenario where models need to be approved by the government before release? All the big providers commo

I have many questions. How would A/B testing work in the scenario where models need to be approved by the government before release? All the big providers commonly a/b test their unreleased models on production traffic. Would these need to be preapproved? Many models get tested on the public for every one that is officially "released". Will the government have the bandwidth to examine each of these? Does changing the system prompt count as a different model or only model weights?

aurareturn 5mo ago
You just perfectly highlighted why over-regulation in tech is troublesome. This is why I've always been against European tech regulations which gave us the cookie prompt. Politicians shouldn't be product designers. Edit: I'll take the downvotes. Every time I say this, I get downvoted. Weirdly, even EU politicians are beginning to see that they've over regulated their tech industry so much that it can't compete but HN just can't accept this opinion.
- guesswho_ 5mo ago
  Cookie promots are not necessary for functional cookies.
- 2ndorderthought 5mo ago
  It's because the actual goals have nothing to do with what they say they are.
- idle_zealot 5mo ago
  The cookie prompt is a perfect example of under regulation. The law you're citing as over-regulation requires companies to get consent before tracking you. Companies across the board settled on "annoy users into consenting" as their compliance strategy. You want to revert to implied consent? Fuck that, layer on "also you can't pester users into agreeing to being tracked." Too vague? That's the point; anything else and you incentivize dancing on the line of exactly how close to non-compliance you can get away with. Politicians broadly shouldn't be product designers, but establishing broad no-go zones around anti-consumer behavior is foundational to modern society. Without that you get cartoon ads marketing menthol cigarettes to kids and commercials for casino apps for betting on drone strikes.
  - ceejayoz 5mo ago
    Yup. It was pure malicious compliance by the tracking industry with the hopes of killing the regulation.
  - aurareturn 5mo ago
    This is over regulation because regulation always have unintended consequences. The unintended consequence is the cookie prompt. And before someone comes out saying that only "bad" websites want to track you, the official European Union website has a cookie prompt. https://commission.europa.eu/index_en https://commission.europa.eu/index_en
    - dgellow 5mo ago
      It’s about consent, that has nothing to do with good or bad
      - aurareturn 5mo ago
        99.999% of people don't care and don't even know what it's suppose to do. Yet, the cookie prompt has collectively wasted how many millions or billions of hours of people's time? How many freaking times has a website fully loaded, shows you a cookie prompt, and clicking on the wrong option will reload the entire website? The web has gotten worse since cookie prompts and websites lost a bit of competitiveness to mobile apps because of these annoying prompts. Load a website on a phone screen and 30% of the screen is covered by an intrusive cookie prompt. As an industry, we learned a long time ago that people hate popups. European Union decided to make a law that causes most websites to show a popup or face potentially bankruptcy level of financial punishment.
        idle_zealot 5mo ago
        Or they could not collect unnecessary user data. They chose to waste users' time. If you don't like that we can always punish them for those billions of wasted hours.
- subhobroto 5mo ago
  > even EU politicians are beginning to see that they've over regulated their tech industry so much that it can't compete Yes, it feels a bit weird to me that the HN crowd is a fan of regulation although much of the crowd works in the least regulated profession. Maybe we need to have regulation that puts an automatic expiration on regulation and there's no way to bypass that. Existing regulation nearing expiration can only be extended by a democratic voting process. Just the burden of handling this should naturally filter out regulation that's unpopular or no longer relevant.
- orwin 5mo ago
  This is because the law should say "The only circumstances in which you can get your users PII is when they willingly give them to you, as clients/subscribers. The only circumstances you can sell that data or track your users is never". Instead we tried something that look like a punt, and even then tracking/adtech ghouls aren't happy. I say we should lobby hard to get my version at least examined in the EU parliament (or in any parliament in a EU country, really), that will probably scare them into removing the cookie banners.
- ofrzeta 5mo ago
  The regulations also gave us "USB-C everywhere" and the possibility to use a different map app than Apple maps on iOS. More to come.
  - aurareturn 5mo ago
    And possibly hindered innovation for a newer, better port because USB-C everywhere is required. I remember Google maps existing on iOS before Apple Maps was ever released.
    - dgellow 5mo ago
      ~That’s bullshit, the regulations do not mention USB–C, they mention it has to be a common standard, with evaluation every few years~ Edit: I was wrong > I remember Google maps existing on iOS before Apple Maps was ever released You couldn’t change the default map app on iOS before the EU forced Apple to allow default apps to be configured. That’s what the person you responded to was claiming, and they are correct
      - aurareturn 5mo ago
        It has to be a USB-C physical receptor and must use USB protocols. be equipped with the USB Type-C receptacle, as described in the standard EN IEC 62680-1-3:2021 “Universal serial bus interfaces for data and power – Part 1-3: Common components – USB Type-C® Cable and Connector Specification”, and that receptacle shall remain accessible and operational at all times; incorporate the USB Power Delivery, as described in the standard EN IEC 62680-1-2:2021 “Universal serial bus interfaces for data and power – Part 1-2: Common components – USB Power Delivery specification”; https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=uriserv%3AOJ.L_.2022.315.01.0030.01.ENG&toc=OJ%3AL%3A2022%3A315%3ATOC https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=uriserv%...
        dgellow 5mo ago
        Ok, I see what I got wrong, I misunderstood the role of the delegation responsible to evaluate technological progress. The standard is indeed in the text and the delegation is allowed to update it to ensure it stays relevant. Sorry for my aggressive tone, I shouldn’t have done that
- surgical_fire 5mo ago
  > European tech regulations which gave us the cookie prompt. What gave you cookie prompt is malicious compliance.
  - aurareturn 5mo ago
    Let's start with the official EU government website's cookie prompt: https://european-union.europa.eu/index_en https://european-union.europa.eu/index_en

aurareturn 5mo ago

You just perfectly highlighted why over-regulation in tech is troublesome. This is why I've always been against European tech regulations which gave us the cookie prompt. Politicians shouldn't be product designers. Edit: I'll take the downvotes. Every time I say this, I get downvoted. Weirdly, even EU politicians are beginning to see that they've over regulated their tech industry so much that it can't compete but HN just can't accept this opinion.

guesswho_ 5mo ago
Cookie promots are not necessary for functional cookies.
2ndorderthought 5mo ago
It's because the actual goals have nothing to do with what they say they are.
idle_zealot 5mo ago
The cookie prompt is a perfect example of under regulation. The law you're citing as over-regulation requires companies to get consent before tracking you. Companies across the board settled on "annoy users into consenting" as their compliance strategy. You want to revert to implied consent? Fuck that, layer on "also you can't pester users into agreeing to being tracked." Too vague? That's the point; anything else and you incentivize dancing on the line of exactly how close to non-compliance you can get away with. Politicians broadly shouldn't be product designers, but establishing broad no-go zones around anti-consumer behavior is foundational to modern society. Without that you get cartoon ads marketing menthol cigarettes to kids and commercials for casino apps for betting on drone strikes.
- ceejayoz 5mo ago
  Yup. It was pure malicious compliance by the tracking industry with the hopes of killing the regulation.
- aurareturn 5mo ago
  This is over regulation because regulation always have unintended consequences. The unintended consequence is the cookie prompt. And before someone comes out saying that only "bad" websites want to track you, the official European Union website has a cookie prompt. https://commission.europa.eu/index_en https://commission.europa.eu/index_en
  - dgellow 5mo ago
    It’s about consent, that has nothing to do with good or bad
    - aurareturn 5mo ago
      99.999% of people don't care and don't even know what it's suppose to do. Yet, the cookie prompt has collectively wasted how many millions or billions of hours of people's time? How many freaking times has a website fully loaded, shows you a cookie prompt, and clicking on the wrong option will reload the entire website? The web has gotten worse since cookie prompts and websites lost a bit of competitiveness to mobile apps because of these annoying prompts. Load a website on a phone screen and 30% of the screen is covered by an intrusive cookie prompt. As an industry, we learned a long time ago that people hate popups. European Union decided to make a law that causes most websites to show a popup or face potentially bankruptcy level of financial punishment.
      - idle_zealot 5mo ago
        Or they could not collect unnecessary user data. They chose to waste users' time. If you don't like that we can always punish them for those billions of wasted hours.
subhobroto 5mo ago
> even EU politicians are beginning to see that they've over regulated their tech industry so much that it can't compete Yes, it feels a bit weird to me that the HN crowd is a fan of regulation although much of the crowd works in the least regulated profession. Maybe we need to have regulation that puts an automatic expiration on regulation and there's no way to bypass that. Existing regulation nearing expiration can only be extended by a democratic voting process. Just the burden of handling this should naturally filter out regulation that's unpopular or no longer relevant.
orwin 5mo ago
This is because the law should say "The only circumstances in which you can get your users PII is when they willingly give them to you, as clients/subscribers. The only circumstances you can sell that data or track your users is never". Instead we tried something that look like a punt, and even then tracking/adtech ghouls aren't happy. I say we should lobby hard to get my version at least examined in the EU parliament (or in any parliament in a EU country, really), that will probably scare them into removing the cookie banners.
ofrzeta 5mo ago
The regulations also gave us "USB-C everywhere" and the possibility to use a different map app than Apple maps on iOS. More to come.
- aurareturn 5mo ago
  And possibly hindered innovation for a newer, better port because USB-C everywhere is required. I remember Google maps existing on iOS before Apple Maps was ever released.
  - dgellow 5mo ago
    ~That’s bullshit, the regulations do not mention USB–C, they mention it has to be a common standard, with evaluation every few years~ Edit: I was wrong > I remember Google maps existing on iOS before Apple Maps was ever released You couldn’t change the default map app on iOS before the EU forced Apple to allow default apps to be configured. That’s what the person you responded to was claiming, and they are correct
    - aurareturn 5mo ago
      It has to be a USB-C physical receptor and must use USB protocols. be equipped with the USB Type-C receptacle, as described in the standard EN IEC 62680-1-3:2021 “Universal serial bus interfaces for data and power – Part 1-3: Common components – USB Type-C® Cable and Connector Specification”, and that receptacle shall remain accessible and operational at all times; incorporate the USB Power Delivery, as described in the standard EN IEC 62680-1-2:2021 “Universal serial bus interfaces for data and power – Part 1-2: Common components – USB Power Delivery specification”; https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=uriserv%3AOJ.L_.2022.315.01.0030.01.ENG&toc=OJ%3AL%3A2022%3A315%3ATOC https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=uriserv%...
      - dgellow 5mo ago
        Ok, I see what I got wrong, I misunderstood the role of the delegation responsible to evaluate technological progress. The standard is indeed in the text and the delegation is allowed to update it to ensure it stays relevant. Sorry for my aggressive tone, I shouldn’t have done that
surgical_fire 5mo ago
> European tech regulations which gave us the cookie prompt. What gave you cookie prompt is malicious compliance.
- aurareturn 5mo ago
  Let's start with the official EU government website's cookie prompt: https://european-union.europa.eu/index_en https://european-union.europa.eu/index_en