6 ms·

> When they want data about a school intersection in SF at a certain time of day, they just... synthetically generate it and simulate I think it's more about d

> When they want data about a school intersection in SF at a certain time of day, they just... synthetically generate it and simulate I think it's more about detecting changes to the world. You need boots on the ground, so to speak, to see that new speed limit sign or the new lane paint. The Waymo vehicle can no doubt react to changes in the world when it encounters them, relaying them back to the mothership, but it's better to know about them in advance.

ra7 5mo ago
Most AVs, definitely Waymo vehicles, are self mapping. They can detect environment changes and relay it to the entire fleet. That's because they map using the same vehicles as the fleet.
delfinom 5mo ago
>You need boots on the ground, so to speak, to see that new speed limit sign or the new lane paint. It'll shock you to know that you can simply get this from governments, some even provide this in API form
- KaiserPro 5mo ago
  no visual data, you need picture data for that. companies like NC tech do it for like $1m a city. or thereabouts.
- paganel 5mo ago
  > or the new lane paint. I'd be surprised if this is a thing outside the biggest US (and European, for that matter) cities, judging from Google StreetView there are lots of streets in US cities/towns with almost no paint lines at all.
  - msm_ 5mo ago
    Do you mean in the API? I live in an European country and I don't think I ever saw an asphalt road without paint lines. This varies a lot between countries though.
    - ThunderSizzle 5mo ago
      Many American roads don't have lines. Residential roads, parking lots, many business driveways have limited markings. Then there's roads with just the center line markers with no road should markings. Then there's a whole class of roads of lines over "demarked" old lines that weren't demarked well, or lines fading that should've been painted a long time ago. I'm surprised you've never seen a non-perfect road?
    - paganel 5mo ago
      Here in Bucharest there are quite a lot of big boulevards that do not have them, either because they haven’t been repainted over in a long time or because they laid new asphalt without bothering to repaint the lines (this happens a lot, unfortunately, and is very frustrating).
    - ssl-3 5mo ago
      Does Italy count? https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/0c/Google_Maps_Camera_Car_on_a_small_road_in_Langhe%2C_Italy.JPG https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/0c/Google_M...
    - VorpalWay 5mo ago
      Small country side roads routinely lack a central line in Sweden. Even smaller roads can lack the side lines too. And I'm talking asphalt roads here still. The same happens on many residential streets in towns and cities. But sure, it would be rare to have a large road or street without markings. But most roads aren't large. Most travelled kilometers happen on large roads, but that is not the same thing as most roads. And many individual journeys would involve at least a little bit of small roads at the beginning, end or both. And of course, if they are covered with snow and ice during the winter you can't see the markings anyway.
- dmd 5mo ago
  It probably won't shock you to know that those sources of data can be months to even years delayed from what's actually out in the world.
MagicMoonlight 5mo ago
That’s dumb then. It shows it’s just brute force rather than AI. A human doesn’t need to be shown every single road that exists in order to drive.
- ThunderSizzle 5mo ago
  Just a bunch of sophisticated if statements, I guess.
- simmonmt 5mo ago
  That's true, but the human can do a much better job planning for the journey if they know what to expect along the way. One example, from the end of the journey: knowing in advance where the actual entrance to the business is, or the specific curb cut that leads to the residence, makes it easier and far less error prone to decide exactly where the journey should end. Even humans have a hard time figuring out the right access point for a business or residence. This is a job for an offline process, fed by as many data sources as possible.

ra7 5mo ago

Most AVs, definitely Waymo vehicles, are self mapping. They can detect environment changes and relay it to the entire fleet. That's because they map using the same vehicles as the fleet.

delfinom 5mo ago

>You need boots on the ground, so to speak, to see that new speed limit sign or the new lane paint. It'll shock you to know that you can simply get this from governments, some even provide this in API form

KaiserPro 5mo ago
no visual data, you need picture data for that. companies like NC tech do it for like $1m a city. or thereabouts.
paganel 5mo ago
> or the new lane paint. I'd be surprised if this is a thing outside the biggest US (and European, for that matter) cities, judging from Google StreetView there are lots of streets in US cities/towns with almost no paint lines at all.
- msm_ 5mo ago
  Do you mean in the API? I live in an European country and I don't think I ever saw an asphalt road without paint lines. This varies a lot between countries though.
  - ThunderSizzle 5mo ago
    Many American roads don't have lines. Residential roads, parking lots, many business driveways have limited markings. Then there's roads with just the center line markers with no road should markings. Then there's a whole class of roads of lines over "demarked" old lines that weren't demarked well, or lines fading that should've been painted a long time ago. I'm surprised you've never seen a non-perfect road?
  - paganel 5mo ago
    Here in Bucharest there are quite a lot of big boulevards that do not have them, either because they haven’t been repainted over in a long time or because they laid new asphalt without bothering to repaint the lines (this happens a lot, unfortunately, and is very frustrating).
  - ssl-3 5mo ago
    Does Italy count? https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/0c/Google_Maps_Camera_Car_on_a_small_road_in_Langhe%2C_Italy.JPG https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/0c/Google_M...
  - VorpalWay 5mo ago
    Small country side roads routinely lack a central line in Sweden. Even smaller roads can lack the side lines too. And I'm talking asphalt roads here still. The same happens on many residential streets in towns and cities. But sure, it would be rare to have a large road or street without markings. But most roads aren't large. Most travelled kilometers happen on large roads, but that is not the same thing as most roads. And many individual journeys would involve at least a little bit of small roads at the beginning, end or both. And of course, if they are covered with snow and ice during the winter you can't see the markings anyway.
dmd 5mo ago
It probably won't shock you to know that those sources of data can be months to even years delayed from what's actually out in the world.

MagicMoonlight 5mo ago

That’s dumb then. It shows it’s just brute force rather than AI. A human doesn’t need to be shown every single road that exists in order to drive.

ThunderSizzle 5mo ago
Just a bunch of sophisticated if statements, I guess.
simmonmt 5mo ago
That's true, but the human can do a much better job planning for the journey if they know what to expect along the way. One example, from the end of the journey: knowing in advance where the actual entrance to the business is, or the specific curb cut that leads to the residence, makes it easier and far less error prone to decide exactly where the journey should end. Even humans have a hard time figuring out the right access point for a business or residence. This is a job for an offline process, fed by as many data sources as possible.