7 ms·

Entire generations of people who were never alive to remember a world where their every movement and utterance was not being tracked by the advertising/surveill

Entire generations of people who were never alive to remember a world where their every movement and utterance was not being tracked by the advertising/surveillance industrial complex. It's just considered normal now. The west is very sick.

railgunmerlin 5mo ago
Are we pretending this isn't a global phenomenon?
- deleted 5mo ago
  [deleted]
- rdevilla 5mo ago
  Overseas, cash is king. In Canada, and also in San Francisco, you can only tap your credit card because cash carries COVID [0]. [0] https://www.cbc.ca/news/health/cash-coronavirus-questions-answered-1.5609691 https://www.cbc.ca/news/health/cash-coronavirus-questions-an...
  - mcsniff 5mo ago
    If a shop won't accept cash, I just leave.
    - rdevilla 5mo ago
      You weren't transacting at all in Toronto during COVID then. This is the endgame of surveillance capitalism: submission, or opting out. Few can, or care enough to, do the latter.
      - lolstarz 5mo ago
        I'm as concerned about the surveillance state as anyone but let's keep our history constrained by fact. I live in Toronto too and it was still true that for many, many places cash was fine. Cash discounts are super common in various parts of the city and this was still true during COVID.
        rdevilla 5mo ago
        > let's keep our history constrained by fact. I live in Toronto too This is hilarious. Toronto has no respect for facts, it has shown it will just fabricate histories out of whole cloth. Nevertheless I'm tired of people citing anecdata and personal experience when upthread I have linked to a CBC article discussing a Bank of Canada report "arguing that cash-based transactions have plummeted from 54 per cent in 2009 to 10 per cent as of 2021." https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/canada-sleepwalking-into-cashless-society-consumer-advocates-warn-1.7248846 https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/canada-sleepwalking-in...
      - stronglikedan 5mo ago
        > You weren't transacting at all in Toronto during COVID then. There's always someone will to take cash. It's still king, despite the naysayers.
      - deleted 5mo ago
        [deleted]
  - railgunmerlin 5mo ago
    curious which overseas country that doesn't fall under the 'west' has cash as king
  - john_strinlai 5mo ago
    >you can only tap your credit card because cash carries COVID [0] maybe during peak covid? but certainly not now. this comment is either being intentionally disingenuous or just parroting a random article from an extraordinary (and no longer applicable) time of our lives and presenting it as if its still the current status quo. i am in canada for weeks at a time multiple times per year, and i have family that live in BC, AB, and ON. cash is my primary form of payment and not once have i been turned down using cash on any of my visits. not once has family complained about being unable to use cash (several of the older of them, like me, primarily use cash).
    - rdevilla 5mo ago
      Congratulations, you are the 1 in 10. This is why we don't use anecdata. > Even a report commissioned by the Bank of Canada suggests it's time to protect access to money. > That report, titled "Social policy implications for a less-cash society," recommends legislative action, arguing that cash-based transactions have plummeted from 54 per cent in 2009 to 10 per cent as of 2021. https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/canada-sleepwalking-into-cashless-society-consumer-advocates-warn-1.7248846 https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/canada-sleepwalking-in...
      - john_strinlai 5mo ago
        doesn't matter what the proportion is. the fact is i can still use cash, despite your very bold claim otherwise. whats your goal with the misinformation, anyways?
        rdevilla 5mo ago
        [flagged]
        john_strinlai 5mo ago
        >Why don't you just misgender me next while you're making assumptions? what...? >until people derailed it by people, do you mean you? you are the one that brought up "overseas" vs. canada/san fran and made the false claim that you cant use cash in canada.
  - charcircuit 5mo ago
    Credit cards are more convenient. 1. Double tap power button on a phone you are already holding 2. Tap the reader Versus 1. Find an ATM 2. Take your wallet out of your pocket 3. Take your card out of your wallet 4. Spend a minute withdrawing cash from the ATM 5. Put the cash in your wallet 6. Put your wallet in your pants 7. Go to the actual place you want to spend money 8. Take your wallet out of your pocket 9. Take cash out of your wallet 10. Hand it over 11. Wait to receive change 12. Put the change in your wallet 13. Put your wallet in your pocket If you want cash to make a resurgence you need to figure out how we can make a digital version of it.
  - bsimpson 5mo ago
    The US adopted credit cards before the rest of the world, so we ended up with a worse network (essentially ossified at v1 when later adopters got v2 or v3). Corona paranoia incentivized upgraded to tap-to-pay, but it was already prevalent in other parts of the world. It was more ubiquitous in Singapore in 2019 than it is in the US even now.
- mc32 5mo ago
  In many ways the west is copying what the East and the Middle East are doing. It’s quite concerning that democratic governments and their electorate are going with it, but to be “fair” this seems to be a somewhat orchestrated global phenomenon. Of course it’s not good.
- idiotsecant 5mo ago
  Of course all governments want to control every move and thought of their citizens. It makes governing easier. We expect that in autocracies. I don't know about The West as a bloc, but at least the USA was supposed to have respect for the basic individualistic privacy and freedom of the average citizen. We've allowed that to largely evaporate. The differences between the US and something like the PRC are rapidly eroding. Don't get me wrong, the US is still an order of magnitude more free but you can see a future where the trend lines are converging.
  - heikkilevanto 5mo ago
    > Of course all governments want to control every move and thought of their citizens. It makes governing easier. We expect that in autocracies. Are you implying that all governments are autocracies? Rather pessimistic view, in my opinion.
    - idiotsecant 5mo ago
      All governments are autocracies in the same way that all directions are downhill if you are a marble.
bigyabai 5mo ago
That wisdom will not be much comfort to babies born last week. The first news they get in this world will be News subjected to Military Censorship. That is a given in wartime, along with massive campaigns of deliberately-planted "Dis-information." That is routine behavior in Wartime -- for all countries and all combatants -- and it makes life difficult for people who value real news. When War Drums Roll, Hunter S. Thompson, https://www.espn.com/page2/s/thompson/010918.html https://www.espn.com/page2/s/thompson/010918.html
normalaccess 5mo ago
You spelled world wrong. China has their social credit, EU has their cameras, America has Palantir, Starlink has internet everywhere, 5G can be used as radar, age verification is being deployed globally, ect... Babylon reborn. Edit: UK not EU
- alecco 5mo ago
  UK: hold my beer...
  - whilenot-dev 5mo ago
    I think GP meant to s/EU/UK/, as in "UK has their cameras", because "EU has their cameras" doesn't make much sense to me as EU citizen...
    - normalaccess 5mo ago
      Yep, got my wires crossed, thanks for the correction.

railgunmerlin 5mo ago

Are we pretending this isn't a global phenomenon?

deleted 5mo ago
[deleted]
rdevilla 5mo ago
Overseas, cash is king. In Canada, and also in San Francisco, you can only tap your credit card because cash carries COVID [0]. [0] https://www.cbc.ca/news/health/cash-coronavirus-questions-answered-1.5609691 https://www.cbc.ca/news/health/cash-coronavirus-questions-an...
- mcsniff 5mo ago
  If a shop won't accept cash, I just leave.
  - rdevilla 5mo ago
    You weren't transacting at all in Toronto during COVID then. This is the endgame of surveillance capitalism: submission, or opting out. Few can, or care enough to, do the latter.
    - lolstarz 5mo ago
      I'm as concerned about the surveillance state as anyone but let's keep our history constrained by fact. I live in Toronto too and it was still true that for many, many places cash was fine. Cash discounts are super common in various parts of the city and this was still true during COVID.
      - rdevilla 5mo ago
        > let's keep our history constrained by fact. I live in Toronto too This is hilarious. Toronto has no respect for facts, it has shown it will just fabricate histories out of whole cloth. Nevertheless I'm tired of people citing anecdata and personal experience when upthread I have linked to a CBC article discussing a Bank of Canada report "arguing that cash-based transactions have plummeted from 54 per cent in 2009 to 10 per cent as of 2021." https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/canada-sleepwalking-into-cashless-society-consumer-advocates-warn-1.7248846 https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/canada-sleepwalking-in...
    - stronglikedan 5mo ago
      > You weren't transacting at all in Toronto during COVID then. There's always someone will to take cash. It's still king, despite the naysayers.
    - deleted 5mo ago
      [deleted]
- railgunmerlin 5mo ago
  curious which overseas country that doesn't fall under the 'west' has cash as king
- john_strinlai 5mo ago
  >you can only tap your credit card because cash carries COVID [0] maybe during peak covid? but certainly not now. this comment is either being intentionally disingenuous or just parroting a random article from an extraordinary (and no longer applicable) time of our lives and presenting it as if its still the current status quo. i am in canada for weeks at a time multiple times per year, and i have family that live in BC, AB, and ON. cash is my primary form of payment and not once have i been turned down using cash on any of my visits. not once has family complained about being unable to use cash (several of the older of them, like me, primarily use cash).
  - rdevilla 5mo ago
    Congratulations, you are the 1 in 10. This is why we don't use anecdata. > Even a report commissioned by the Bank of Canada suggests it's time to protect access to money. > That report, titled "Social policy implications for a less-cash society," recommends legislative action, arguing that cash-based transactions have plummeted from 54 per cent in 2009 to 10 per cent as of 2021. https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/canada-sleepwalking-into-cashless-society-consumer-advocates-warn-1.7248846 https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/canada-sleepwalking-in...
    - john_strinlai 5mo ago
      doesn't matter what the proportion is. the fact is i can still use cash, despite your very bold claim otherwise. whats your goal with the misinformation, anyways?
      - rdevilla 5mo ago
        [flagged]
        john_strinlai 5mo ago
        >Why don't you just misgender me next while you're making assumptions? what...? >until people derailed it by people, do you mean you? you are the one that brought up "overseas" vs. canada/san fran and made the false claim that you cant use cash in canada.
- charcircuit 5mo ago
  Credit cards are more convenient. 1. Double tap power button on a phone you are already holding 2. Tap the reader Versus 1. Find an ATM 2. Take your wallet out of your pocket 3. Take your card out of your wallet 4. Spend a minute withdrawing cash from the ATM 5. Put the cash in your wallet 6. Put your wallet in your pants 7. Go to the actual place you want to spend money 8. Take your wallet out of your pocket 9. Take cash out of your wallet 10. Hand it over 11. Wait to receive change 12. Put the change in your wallet 13. Put your wallet in your pocket If you want cash to make a resurgence you need to figure out how we can make a digital version of it.
- bsimpson 5mo ago
  The US adopted credit cards before the rest of the world, so we ended up with a worse network (essentially ossified at v1 when later adopters got v2 or v3). Corona paranoia incentivized upgraded to tap-to-pay, but it was already prevalent in other parts of the world. It was more ubiquitous in Singapore in 2019 than it is in the US even now.
mc32 5mo ago
In many ways the west is copying what the East and the Middle East are doing. It’s quite concerning that democratic governments and their electorate are going with it, but to be “fair” this seems to be a somewhat orchestrated global phenomenon. Of course it’s not good.
idiotsecant 5mo ago
Of course all governments want to control every move and thought of their citizens. It makes governing easier. We expect that in autocracies. I don't know about The West as a bloc, but at least the USA was supposed to have respect for the basic individualistic privacy and freedom of the average citizen. We've allowed that to largely evaporate. The differences between the US and something like the PRC are rapidly eroding. Don't get me wrong, the US is still an order of magnitude more free but you can see a future where the trend lines are converging.
- heikkilevanto 5mo ago
  > Of course all governments want to control every move and thought of their citizens. It makes governing easier. We expect that in autocracies. Are you implying that all governments are autocracies? Rather pessimistic view, in my opinion.
  - idiotsecant 5mo ago
    All governments are autocracies in the same way that all directions are downhill if you are a marble.

bigyabai 5mo ago

That wisdom will not be much comfort to babies born last week. The first news they get in this world will be News subjected to Military Censorship. That is a given in wartime, along with massive campaigns of deliberately-planted "Dis-information." That is routine behavior in Wartime -- for all countries and all combatants -- and it makes life difficult for people who value real news. When War Drums Roll, Hunter S. Thompson, https://www.espn.com/page2/s/thompson/010918.html https://www.espn.com/page2/s/thompson/010918.html

normalaccess 5mo ago

You spelled world wrong. China has their social credit, EU has their cameras, America has Palantir, Starlink has internet everywhere, 5G can be used as radar, age verification is being deployed globally, ect... Babylon reborn. Edit: UK not EU

alecco 5mo ago
UK: hold my beer...
- whilenot-dev 5mo ago
  I think GP meant to s/EU/UK/, as in "UK has their cameras", because "EU has their cameras" doesn't make much sense to me as EU citizen...
  - normalaccess 5mo ago
    Yep, got my wires crossed, thanks for the correction.