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Houses got expensive because of usury (loans made for unproductive purposes). It destroys civilizations over time. That is why it was encoded into ancient relig
by snikeris 5mo ago
Houses got expensive because of usury (loans made for unproductive purposes). It destroys civilizations over time. That is why it was encoded into ancient religious traditions.
Housing, education, and cars, all typically financed via loans, all exorbitantly expensive.
- TheCoelacanth 5mo agoIf anything it's the opposite. Extremely low interest rates drove housing prices higher by making it easier to afford a higher price.
- snikeris 5mo agoIt’s not about the interest rate. It’s the availability of loans for unproductive purposes on a societal level. It raises the price even if you choose not to partake in said loans. When the money being lended is digital and not backed by anything it’s even worse.
- kelnos 5mo agoYou said "usury", which is a word that describes loaning money at an exorbitant interest rate. So it's no surprise GP thought you were talking about interest rates. (Yes, I know "usury" has had other meanings, but this is the current, common definition, and if you're going to use a word in a way that's uncommon, you should be prepared for confusion.)
- triceratops 5mo agoThey said "usury" in the context of ancient societies. I understood their meaning perfectly well. More money lent out = higher asset prices.
- ButlerianJihad 5mo agoOkay then! What shall be our working definition of "exorbitant"?
- triceratops 5mo agoAbove the legal maximum. If you're asking how lawyers or lawmakers define that, read https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interest_rate_ceiling https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interest_rate_ceiling
- ButlerianJihad 5mo agoSo in the USA in 2026, any interest rates or fees that are not illegal, are not exorbitant? And any loan or credit that is not illegal is not usury? That is obviously not the working definition for other commenters here. If illegal loans have financed our cars, education, and homes, then where are all the criminal prosecutions? Where are the lawsuits to recover the exorbitant rates? Was it consumers taking these illegal loans? Or was it the established banks, negotiating illegal and exorbitant rates with criminals? Is that why banks fail, or are "too big to fail", because we are reluctant to expose their criminal activity? We heard of people "walking away" from their home loans during the 2008 recession; it's difficult to walk with broken kneecaps! We heard that their loans were "underwater", but we didn't realize they were "sleeping with the fishes"!
- triceratops 5mo ago> That is obviously not the working definition for other commenters here. If you've read the other comments I don't understand why you're still confused. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47882360 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47882360 pointed the finger at the general practice of moneylending, known for most of history as "usury", for high housing prices. This is broadly true - lower interest rates equal high prices. Others thought they meant modern usury, which is lending money at higher than the legal maximum interest rate.
- snikeris 5mo agoI know that it is now commonly defined that way, so I explicitly called out that I was referring back to an the older definition: > usury (loans made for unproductive purposes)
- cpursley 5mo agoUS interest rates have been historically some of the lowest anywhere. And there's nations with very high interest rates that don't have the same housing cost problems...
- triceratops 5mo agoYou're both saying the same thing...
- mitthrowaway2 5mo agoWhen I hear "usury" I usually think of high interest rates, like payday loans and credit cards, not a 2.5% 30-year term.
- snikeris 5mo agoYeah it was redefined to that at some point. See Belloc’s essay on usury if you’re interested.
- marcusverus 5mo agoThe definition of usury hasn't changed in 200 years. From Webster's 1828 Edition: U'SURY, noun s as z. [Latin usura, from utor, to use.] 1. Formerly, interest; or a premium paid or stipulated to be paid for the use of money. [Usury formerly denoted any legal interest, but in this sense, the word is no longer in use.] 2. In present usage, illegal interest; a premium or compensation paid or stipulated to be paid for the use of money borrowed or retained, beyond the rate of interest established by law. 3. The practice of taking interest. (obsolete)
- triceratops 5mo agoThe person I responded to said: "That is why [a ban on usury] was encoded into ancient religious traditions" So they obviously meant the old definition, which encompasses all moneylending.
- anovikov 5mo agoI'm not even sure where "houses got expensive" come from. Houses certainly did not increase in price (per unit of area) in last ~80 years, inflation adjusted - they tightly fluctuate around the same point. Housing affordability is in fact 4th best in the US among all countries in the world, and it got better in the last decades (although with fluctuations, and periods when it was getting cheaper were not pleasant as it meant millions of people going under).
- realo 5mo agoInteresting. This posture contradicts quite a few testimonials we can read about everywhere, including here in HN. Maybe it's the salaries, then, that are half what they should be?
- treis 5mo agoIt's very true for LA, SF, NYC, DC, and other similar cities. It's far less true everywhere else. Here in Atlanta you can find homes <250k and condos <150k
- anovikov 5mo agoBecause this is vibes vs data. People are made to believe that houses are expensive and people are being squeezed, because it makes money to throw people into rage. Housing price per square feet is flat over decades...
- loloquwowndueo 5mo ago> I'm not even sure where "houses got expensive" come from Not been shopping for a house recently? Avg house price in my city doubled in the past 5 years.