5 ms·

> It's crazy to me that you know this and yet it seems like you are still in support of the US protecting Israel? You still think this is a net win for the worl

by Allfodr 5mo ago

> It's crazy to me that you know this and yet it seems like you are still in support of the US protecting Israel? You still think this is a net win for the world? That's incomprehensible to me. It's crazy to me that you know the UN is literally run by states that actually commit war crimes, kill LGBTQ people, suppress women and minority rights, countries like Iran, Saudi Arabia, Qatar, and you still think UN condemnation means anything. They're condemning the only democratic country in the entire Middle East, the one place in the region where these rights actually matter and mean something. Arab citizens can vote, gay people can live openly, women sit in parliament and serve in the military. That's Israel. And that's who they keep putting on trial. Of course I fully support the aid for Israel.

sheikhnbake 5mo ago
A norse mythology username extolling the evils of non-western countries while full throating a genocidal apartheid state. name a more iconic duo
mcphage 5mo ago
> the one place in the region where these rights actually matter and mean something What was the article about, again? Was it about respecting the rights of women?
- Allfodr 5mo ago
  We must make a distinction between the actions of the government (and the military) and the actions of some lunatic individuals, though.
  - mcphage 5mo ago
    I don’t think we do in this case. This is the very first line of the article: > Israeli soldiers and settlers are using gendered violence and sexual assault and harassment to force Palestinians from their homes in the occupied West Bank, human rights and legal experts say. So here we’re talking about both the military and some lunatic individuals.
sillystuff 5mo ago
> They're condemning the only democratic country An apartheid ethno-supremacist state is, by definition, not democratic. In the last month, the Israeli Jews passed a law to allow the death penalty, but only for non-Jews*. The Israeli lawmakers celebrated their lynching law by wearing noose shaped lapel pins. There are several 10s of laws that favor Jews over non-Jewish citizens of Israel. Palestinian citizens are, at best, second-class citizens. Non-Israeli Palestinians who were violently driven from their homes in previous Israeli Jewish genocides of the indigenous population, do not even have a right to civilian courts. In most cases, the Israeli Jews imprison these Palestinians without charge, trial, or fixed sentence-- including young children. Rape and torture by Israeli Jews is systemic in these detention centers. Their "democratic" process includes mobs of Jewish Knesset (parliment) members threatening, on the floor of the Knesset, the rape of Palestian Israeli members of the Knesset including, Haneen Zoabi and Sa'id Naffaa. * The law doesn't really change anything in reality, as Jews have always been able to rape, torture and murder Palestinians with impunity-- e.g., for the year prior to 7 Oct., Israeli Jews murdered, on average, one Palestinian per day, in the West Bank. That rate is much worse now.
- Allfodr 5mo ago
  [flagged]
  - disgruntledphd2 5mo ago
    > And before you mention the West Bank, it is not part of Israel. The Palestinian Authority rules there. What country is it, then? And if it's not part of Israel, then why are the Israeli government protecting settlers there?
disgruntledphd2 5mo ago
> Arab citizens can vote Call me when the citizens in Gaza and the West Bank get a vote. Oh, they're citizens of another country you say? What country would that be? Like, it's great that Israeli Arabs are treated (somewhat) well, but it doesn't excuse what's happening in Gaza and (particularly) in the West Bank. Regardless of how progressive or democratic a state is, if they keep bombing other states and killing people, they will most likely be judged for it. It's profoundly depressing that the Jewish people, fresh off of 2k years of oppression, have decided to speedrun the same behaviours against someone else.
- thot_experiment 5mo ago
  > It's profoundly depressing that the Jewish people, fresh off of 2k years of oppression, have decided to speedrun the same behaviours against someone else. I know it can seem like this but it's important to make the distinction that Jewish people are not the same set as zionists and israelis, and that conflation is something the latter two parties DESPERATELY want you to make.
  - disgruntledphd2 5mo ago
    That's totally fair and a distinction I definitely support. I really, really really like almost all of the Israeli people and Jewish people I've met and worked with, and hence why I care about this a lot.
    - deleted 5mo ago
      [deleted]
- Allfodr 5mo ago
  > Call me when the citizens in Gaza and the West Bank get a vote. They can. They voted in Hamas in Gaza and the PA in the West Bank. They are not Israeli citizens, which is why they don't vote in Israeli elections. You wouldn't expect the US to give voting rights to Mexicans or Canadians who aren't dual citizens, would you? > Like, it's great that Israeli Arabs are treated (somewhat) well "Somewhat"? They get subsidized education, skip mandatory military service, and in some cases receive more benefits than the Jewish population through affirmative action. Gaza and the West Bank aren't part of Israel. Israel withdrew from Gaza in 2005 and handed civil control of the West Bank to the Palestinian Authority under the Oslo Accords. > if they keep bombing other states and killing people Nice summary for wars that were NEVER started by Israel. And before you mention Iran, it has been at war with Israel since 1979, the moment it declared it would erase Israel off the face of the Earth, and has been actively attacking Israel through its proxies (Hamas, Hezbollah) for decades.
rozap 5mo ago
Genocide committed by a democratic country that is cool with lgbtq people that have tech jobs and hang out at cafes doesn't make it OK. You're concerned with aesthetics over everything else.

by Allfodr 5mo ago

sheikhnbake 5mo ago

A norse mythology username extolling the evils of non-western countries while full throating a genocidal apartheid state. name a more iconic duo

mcphage 5mo ago

> the one place in the region where these rights actually matter and mean something What was the article about, again? Was it about respecting the rights of women?

Allfodr 5mo ago
We must make a distinction between the actions of the government (and the military) and the actions of some lunatic individuals, though.
- mcphage 5mo ago
  I don’t think we do in this case. This is the very first line of the article: > Israeli soldiers and settlers are using gendered violence and sexual assault and harassment to force Palestinians from their homes in the occupied West Bank, human rights and legal experts say. So here we’re talking about both the military and some lunatic individuals.

sillystuff 5mo ago

> They're condemning the only democratic country An apartheid ethno-supremacist state is, by definition, not democratic. In the last month, the Israeli Jews passed a law to allow the death penalty, but only for non-Jews*. The Israeli lawmakers celebrated their lynching law by wearing noose shaped lapel pins. There are several 10s of laws that favor Jews over non-Jewish citizens of Israel. Palestinian citizens are, at best, second-class citizens. Non-Israeli Palestinians who were violently driven from their homes in previous Israeli Jewish genocides of the indigenous population, do not even have a right to civilian courts. In most cases, the Israeli Jews imprison these Palestinians without charge, trial, or fixed sentence-- including young children. Rape and torture by Israeli Jews is systemic in these detention centers. Their "democratic" process includes mobs of Jewish Knesset (parliment) members threatening, on the floor of the Knesset, the rape of Palestian Israeli members of the Knesset including, Haneen Zoabi and Sa'id Naffaa. * The law doesn't really change anything in reality, as Jews have always been able to rape, torture and murder Palestinians with impunity-- e.g., for the year prior to 7 Oct., Israeli Jews murdered, on average, one Palestinian per day, in the West Bank. That rate is much worse now.

Allfodr 5mo ago
[flagged]
- disgruntledphd2 5mo ago
  > And before you mention the West Bank, it is not part of Israel. The Palestinian Authority rules there. What country is it, then? And if it's not part of Israel, then why are the Israeli government protecting settlers there?

disgruntledphd2 5mo ago

> Arab citizens can vote Call me when the citizens in Gaza and the West Bank get a vote. Oh, they're citizens of another country you say? What country would that be? Like, it's great that Israeli Arabs are treated (somewhat) well, but it doesn't excuse what's happening in Gaza and (particularly) in the West Bank. Regardless of how progressive or democratic a state is, if they keep bombing other states and killing people, they will most likely be judged for it. It's profoundly depressing that the Jewish people, fresh off of 2k years of oppression, have decided to speedrun the same behaviours against someone else.

thot_experiment 5mo ago
> It's profoundly depressing that the Jewish people, fresh off of 2k years of oppression, have decided to speedrun the same behaviours against someone else. I know it can seem like this but it's important to make the distinction that Jewish people are not the same set as zionists and israelis, and that conflation is something the latter two parties DESPERATELY want you to make.
- disgruntledphd2 5mo ago
  That's totally fair and a distinction I definitely support. I really, really really like almost all of the Israeli people and Jewish people I've met and worked with, and hence why I care about this a lot.
  - deleted 5mo ago
    [deleted]
Allfodr 5mo ago
> Call me when the citizens in Gaza and the West Bank get a vote. They can. They voted in Hamas in Gaza and the PA in the West Bank. They are not Israeli citizens, which is why they don't vote in Israeli elections. You wouldn't expect the US to give voting rights to Mexicans or Canadians who aren't dual citizens, would you? > Like, it's great that Israeli Arabs are treated (somewhat) well "Somewhat"? They get subsidized education, skip mandatory military service, and in some cases receive more benefits than the Jewish population through affirmative action. Gaza and the West Bank aren't part of Israel. Israel withdrew from Gaza in 2005 and handed civil control of the West Bank to the Palestinian Authority under the Oslo Accords. > if they keep bombing other states and killing people Nice summary for wars that were NEVER started by Israel. And before you mention Iran, it has been at war with Israel since 1979, the moment it declared it would erase Israel off the face of the Earth, and has been actively attacking Israel through its proxies (Hamas, Hezbollah) for decades.

rozap 5mo ago

Genocide committed by a democratic country that is cool with lgbtq people that have tech jobs and hang out at cafes doesn't make it OK. You're concerned with aesthetics over everything else.