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> Satellite TV uses a file system called an MPEG transport stream that allows multiple audio, video, or data layers to be packaged into a single stream file. I

> Satellite TV uses a file system called an MPEG transport stream that allows multiple audio, video, or data layers to be packaged into a single stream file. Interesting read but that part really made me question my own sanity. It’s probably just lost in translation.

djkoolaide 5mo ago
that's how it works. point a free-to-air dish at the right place in the sky, demodulate the DVB-S2 signal, and it's often IP traffic moving through mpeg transport streams.
- thakoppno 5mo ago
  it’s the claim of it being a file system that’s throwing me. obviously nbd but maybe my mental models broken again.
  - pabs3 5mo ago
    http://tom7.org/harder/ http://tom7.org/harder/
  - atoav 5mo ago
    File system is the wrong word. What they should have used is file format. It is not wrong that you can have a file (bits and bytes encoded in the shape described by a file format) on some remote point. If you have an index of those files where you can programmatically choose between multiple files that could even pass as a crude "file system". But I doubt this is what they meant to refer to. It is likelier they wrongly assumed a file system is the system in which a file is organized, where in fact they meant file format.
    - T-A 5mo ago
      I think they were going for a reasonable analogy, especially when a stream is saved to disk to have its contents extracted: each channel contained in the stream can then be thought of as a separate file, not unlike files in a zipped directory.
    - LocalH 5mo ago
      I'd almost call it an "interleaved archive format" for a layman, but even archive isn't quite the right word here.
      - atoav 5mo ago
        The word for this in media is container file format
        LocalH 5mo ago
        That's probably better, but also that's not much different on a conceptual level from a "filesystem". Both contain multiple files, and describe where in the overall image those files are. The difference is exactly in the interleaving - a multiplexed media container is somewhat constrained to a packet-based scenario, where individual packets of the constituent files are separated so that video, audio, and ancillary data all reach the decoder at roughly the same time. A pure filesystem is not constrained as such and can put the files anywhere within the container. A filesystem stored in a monolithic file is not so constrained. I work with Harmonix games as a modder, and they use a bespoke format called "ARK", which is a two-part format. There exists one or more "ARK parts", which in implementation are virtually concatenated, and then the HDR lists a binary offset from the beginning of the first ARK part to tell the games where the individual files are. This could also be called a "container" conceptually. But none of such files are interleaved in any way except for the audio files, which use encrypted multichannel Ogg Vorbis streams plus a bespoke header to aid in seeking. Plus, the context was explaining it to laypeople, where the specific jargon is less important than imparting knowledge and understanding.
  - lmm 5mo ago
    The difference between a file system and a container format is mostly a matter of perspective - indeed OSX literally uses "disk images" as their container format. Is .zip a filesystem? You probably wouldn't want to use it natively on a disk, but for a lot of purposes it's the same kind of thing.
    - ValentineC 5mo ago
      Many SSDs (I first learnt about the concept from those notorious SandForce SSDs [1]) also utilise compression at controller level to reduce wear. So yeah, many SSDs are just huge, non-solid archives. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SandForce#Technology https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SandForce#Technology
wmf 5mo ago
I wouldn't describe Transport Stream as a "file system" but most people probably aren't familiar with the term multiplexing. It's true if you record a TS (e.g. to a .ts file) you can later split out the different Program Streams which can hold pretty much anything.
- LocalH 5mo ago
  Pedantry alert: you're generally extracting Elementary Streams from a given TS. A Program Stream is basically a variant of a TS that's meant more for files at rest - say, on a DVD, or a PS2 game (which did use MPEG-2 PS extensively in the PSS file format, except storing the audio as XA ADPCM in a data stream) - while a TS is a bit more robust for transmission
stackghost 5mo ago
Maybe they meant "a file-based system" because they all run Plan 9.

djkoolaide 5mo ago

that's how it works. point a free-to-air dish at the right place in the sky, demodulate the DVB-S2 signal, and it's often IP traffic moving through mpeg transport streams.

thakoppno 5mo ago
it’s the claim of it being a file system that’s throwing me. obviously nbd but maybe my mental models broken again.
- pabs3 5mo ago
  http://tom7.org/harder/ http://tom7.org/harder/
- atoav 5mo ago
  File system is the wrong word. What they should have used is file format. It is not wrong that you can have a file (bits and bytes encoded in the shape described by a file format) on some remote point. If you have an index of those files where you can programmatically choose between multiple files that could even pass as a crude "file system". But I doubt this is what they meant to refer to. It is likelier they wrongly assumed a file system is the system in which a file is organized, where in fact they meant file format.
  - T-A 5mo ago
    I think they were going for a reasonable analogy, especially when a stream is saved to disk to have its contents extracted: each channel contained in the stream can then be thought of as a separate file, not unlike files in a zipped directory.
  - LocalH 5mo ago
    I'd almost call it an "interleaved archive format" for a layman, but even archive isn't quite the right word here.
    - atoav 5mo ago
      The word for this in media is container file format
      - LocalH 5mo ago
        That's probably better, but also that's not much different on a conceptual level from a "filesystem". Both contain multiple files, and describe where in the overall image those files are. The difference is exactly in the interleaving - a multiplexed media container is somewhat constrained to a packet-based scenario, where individual packets of the constituent files are separated so that video, audio, and ancillary data all reach the decoder at roughly the same time. A pure filesystem is not constrained as such and can put the files anywhere within the container. A filesystem stored in a monolithic file is not so constrained. I work with Harmonix games as a modder, and they use a bespoke format called "ARK", which is a two-part format. There exists one or more "ARK parts", which in implementation are virtually concatenated, and then the HDR lists a binary offset from the beginning of the first ARK part to tell the games where the individual files are. This could also be called a "container" conceptually. But none of such files are interleaved in any way except for the audio files, which use encrypted multichannel Ogg Vorbis streams plus a bespoke header to aid in seeking. Plus, the context was explaining it to laypeople, where the specific jargon is less important than imparting knowledge and understanding.
- lmm 5mo ago
  The difference between a file system and a container format is mostly a matter of perspective - indeed OSX literally uses "disk images" as their container format. Is .zip a filesystem? You probably wouldn't want to use it natively on a disk, but for a lot of purposes it's the same kind of thing.
  - ValentineC 5mo ago
    Many SSDs (I first learnt about the concept from those notorious SandForce SSDs [1]) also utilise compression at controller level to reduce wear. So yeah, many SSDs are just huge, non-solid archives. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SandForce#Technology https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SandForce#Technology

wmf 5mo ago

I wouldn't describe Transport Stream as a "file system" but most people probably aren't familiar with the term multiplexing. It's true if you record a TS (e.g. to a .ts file) you can later split out the different Program Streams which can hold pretty much anything.

LocalH 5mo ago
Pedantry alert: you're generally extracting Elementary Streams from a given TS. A Program Stream is basically a variant of a TS that's meant more for files at rest - say, on a DVD, or a PS2 game (which did use MPEG-2 PS extensively in the PSS file format, except storing the audio as XA ADPCM in a data stream) - while a TS is a bit more robust for transmission

stackghost 5mo ago

Maybe they meant "a file-based system" because they all run Plan 9.