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Agreed. The market should decide if beef consumption is viable. Ultimately energy is the basis all food production. Cheap and plentiful energy solves the food p
by choilive 5mo ago
Agreed. The market should decide if beef consumption is viable. Ultimately energy is the basis all food production. Cheap and plentiful energy solves the food production and distribution problem, then its just matter of preferences.
- Hikikomori 5mo agoMarket also decided that the Irish could only eat potatoes.
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- ux266478 5mo agoIt was actually a disgusting set of edicts and regulations called the Penal Laws, enacted by the English crown, which formalized and wrote into law the informal restrictions imposed on Irish Catholics after the Tudor conquest, as part of a broader genocidal colonialization scheme. Very cool attempt to try and sweep that little fact under the rug. Fun fact, Adam Smith cites the penal laws as an example of the dangers wrought by mercantilism.
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- Hikikomori 5mo agoCan be a bit of both? Free market advocates were certainly involved saying it should work itself out. It kinda did by letting millions die.
- _aavaa_ 5mo agoIt’s hard for the market to decide on its own when the environmental damage of meat production is left as an unpriced externality and when government subsidies are handed out like candy.
- tracker1 5mo ago[flagged]
- datsci_est_2015 5mo agoIs the deforestation of the Amazon overblown? What about the draining of American aquifers?
- tracker1 5mo ago[flagged]
- _aavaa_ 5mo ago> In terms of the Amazon... that was done BY humans... the cattle didn't tear down any trees. This is a pedantic distinction that accomplishes nothing. The humans did it to grow cattle for food. If the price of that destruction had to be paid by the producers/consumers there would be a lot less people eating meat.
- GeoAtreides 5mo ago>In terms of the Amazon... that was done BY humans... the cattle didn't tear down any trees literally the funniest thing I have ever read on HN, well done
- tracker1 5mo agoThe point is... blame the specific organizations and nations that allow(ed) such practices, not all of meat producers and consumers.
- irishcoffee 5mo agoPretty sure the western US states are in a water shortage because they grow almonds et. al. In places that were not meant to be agricultural, importing water, fucking up the entire ecosystem of the region and causing massive water shortages, and massive environmental damage. But yeah, we can keep focusing on the farting cows, that’s the problem.
- BadBadJellyBean 5mo ago"The market" doesn't work as long as costs to the environment can be externalized. If the cost of climate change and lost living space would be added to the cost of beef it might be fair. But it isn't. Methane released by cows, cutting down rain forests for feed, and all the transporting costs us all dearly. But it doesn't cost the manufacturers anything directly so beef can be cheap.
- sirbutters 5mo agoAnd meat is heavily subsidized by the government. It's insanity and corruption.
- RhysU 5mo agoIn the US agricultural subsidies for 2024 were overwhelmingly for corn ($3.2B), soybeans ($1.9B), cotton ($998M), and wheat ($960M). Pasture comes in 5th ($741M). https://usafacts.org/articles/federal-farm-subsidies-what-data-says/ https://usafacts.org/articles/federal-farm-subsidies-what-da... Tofu and ethanol may be more price-distorted by the US government than is beef, but I dunno how to quickly support that idea with hard data beyond what I cited above.
- datsci_est_2015 5mo agoHave you been to the Midwest to observe the scale of corn and soybean operations? I would wager the number of calories per dollar subsidy produced by the corn and soybean industries outweighs handily the calories per dollar subsidy produced by cattle operations, especially given the 10% reduction in efficiency per trophic level. Also, how much does beef benefit from cheap feed prices (corn and soy) due to subsidies as well?
- RhysU 5mo agoBeef prices are high right now. https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/APU0000703112 https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/APU0000703112 If the intent of the government is to pour subsidies into domestic beef production to stabilize prices they're doing a crap job. Compare corn: https://www.macrotrends.net/2532/corn-prices-historical-chart-data https://www.macrotrends.net/2532/corn-prices-historical-char...
- mhurron 5mo ago> The market should decide if beef consumption is viable The market has decided, ant it decided that the well off are more important than the rest so they get what they want at everyone elses expense. Maybe we should stop thinking market forces are in any way right or moral. At least saying 'I got mine, fuck you' would be honest.
- b65e8bee43c2ed0 5mo agothose 33 calories are dirt cheap carbs. there's absolutely no shortage of soy and corn syrup for you to consume.
- r_p4rk 5mo agoSoy is an excellent protein source?
- b65e8bee43c2ed0 5mo ago1. "protein" is a blanket term for a number of amino acids we need, and vegetable sources tend to miss a bunch of them. 2. atrocious calorie to protein ratio due to carbs. I imagine eating a pound (dry weight!) of any legume every day would get real old real fast. 3. phytoestrogens. not just soy, all legumes are full of them, even peanuts.
- r_p4rk 5mo ago1. yeah, i know, soy is packed full of them though and considered a complete protein hence my reply :) 2. i imagine eating a pound of most unprocessed food sources would be bad, tofu and tempeh are very competitive and have macros similar to egg or cheese 3. not sure where you're going with this? surely you're not referencing the well debunked claim that soy feminizes men or something? --- I'm not even vegan and I make plenty of room for soy derived foods in my diet because the benefits are so concrete. It helps with muscle recovery and inflammation via soy isoflavones, and the gut health benefit from diversifying protein sources is very important. It has marginally less leucine, but I am ingesting 200g of protein a day because I actually lift so that really doesn't matter.
- bjustin 5mo agoI agree that we must stop subsidies for cattle farming.
- throw0101a 5mo ago> Agreed. The market should decide if beef consumption is viable. Until The Market™, especially in the US, starts dealing with externalities (like climate change), it should not. Something like carbon pricing (per Greenspan and Volcker): * https://clcouncil.org/economists-statement/ https://clcouncil.org/economists-statement/ * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economists%27_Statement_on_Carbon_Dividends https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economists%27_Statement_on_Car... Even Mr. Free Market himself, Milton Friedman, thought a price on pollution was a good idea: * https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0YGfwSvLkC0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0YGfwSvLkC0