8 ms·

Not sure what world you have lived in for the past at least 10 years... HN (and ycombinator) has implicitly enabled, dogwhistled, or pretended to ignore all so

by foxes 5mo ago

Not sure what world you have lived in for the past at least 10 years... HN (and ycombinator) has implicitly enabled, dogwhistled, or pretended to ignore all sorts of hateful and violent rhetoric. Sometimes it hides behind a veneer of "curious conversation" but other times its disgustingly blatant - last article I saw about sama was filled with horrific racism. I come here because there are sometimes good posts, but this stuff has been here the entire time. Now its your guy getting the hate you are acting like its the worst thing in the world? Frankly people calling out a post from a billionaire is a good thing. You would have to be terminally detached from reality to not see how all these festering issues - wealth inequality, injustice, cost of living, future employment etc etc - are starting to come to a head which would cause people to feel something - frustrated, angry, wrathful.

dang 5mo ago
> Not sure what world you have lived in for the past at least 10 years The world I have lived in for longer than 10 years is HN. I'm gut-wrenchingly familiar with the worst things that people post here—probably more than anyone, simply because it's my job. If you can dig up a single example of a thread this bad that we knew about and didn't do anything about, I'd be shocked, because it would go against everything I believe and feel. Perhaps you can, nonetheless? If so, let's see it. Here's what I mean by "this bad", if you want to calibrate: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47727099 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47727099 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47725722 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47725722 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47725717 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47725717 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47726427 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47726427 The number of people who feel that anything at all is justified if it reinforces their feelings—particularly their angriest and most vicious feelings—is so large that it's clear that it is human nature in action, and that makes me yearn for a cool and heavy rock to crawl under, with moist earth to sink into.
- foxes 5mo ago
  Well I'm not saying they don't get moderated eventually .. but the thread in reference https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47659135 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47659135 There was horrific racism on display right here. Perhaps it just seems part of the background noise to you .. but at the time, some of those posts felt just as bad as calls to violence or worse. But to compose something more substantial .. its probably all to much to neatly tie up in a single reply to a thread.
  - dang 5mo ago
    > Well I'm not saying they don't get moderated eventually I'm going to interpret that as meaning that we do our job ok, just not instantenously—which would make sense, given that we're human and that would be humanly impossible. > There was horrific racism on display right here If there were any cases of that which we didn't do anything about, it would be because we didn't see them. I can't read everything that gets posted to Hacker News any more than you can; see "humanly impossible" above. But I'd like to see specific links. > Perhaps it just seems part of the background noise to you It does not "seem like part of the background noise" to me. What it "seems like" is wrenching my intenstines into an agonizing state on a regular basis and then driving a spike through them.
    - foxes 5mo ago
      Consider some more examples: trump or that other conservative figure getting shot. Or the ceo of the health company getting shot. Both of those people condone(d), support, amplify and drive horrific violence. A common liberal reaction to those incidents - "oh no violence isn't okay!!" - well where were you for all the other horrific things they did and said? Yes in some ideal world there perhaps wouldn't be violence - but I can understand people feeling like they had it coming. It's the boy who cried wolf. It's the bully getting their comeuppance. It can be hard to feel bad. Sama also talks about wanting ai to be the future, its pushed everywhere and the feeling is its going to take peoples jobs and disrupt everything. But there's no discussion about how we are going to look after everyone in that future. Current capitalistic (american) society doesn't seem built for that ... that lack of care already exists for a lot of people too who are homeless, poor etc. Being upset about samas front gate getting firebombed while they probably also had plenty of security .. well idk.
      - brandon272 5mo ago
        > Both of those people condone(d), support, amplify and drive horrific violence. This seems to be the point of contention. What constitutes "violence"? A lot of people seem to define violence as a purely physical act: a missile strike during a war, a fist hitting a face, a molotov cocktail thrown over a property line. What has become clear to me, especially when I saw the discourse around Luigi Mangione and the public opinion polling on it, is that a lot – a lot – of people define it much more broadly: a health insurance denial, a job lost as a result of some CEO's careless ambition, or mere words. The problem with a very broad definition of violence is that it permits a pretty barbaric worldview. If I cut someone off in traffic, or if a careless administrative action on my part costs someone money that then puts them in a financial pickle that month, is that violence? Do I then deserve to be tracked and assaulted? What about the doctor who is complicit in the refused treatment because the insurance company won't pay a bill? "I understand the insurance company isn't paying the bill but you are still going to treat me, and to not do so is a violent act." The list goes on. Can society function if the default action at real or perceived injustice is to just kill?
- pillefitz 5mo ago
  I wouldn't hold it against anyone wishing my great grandfather shouldn't have existed for playing a minor role in Nazi Germany. Altman is in cahoots with a government that just a few days ago threatened to end a whole civilization. So no, I don't understand where you are coming from or why you're disgusted at the comments you linked.
  - foxes 5mo ago
    It's kinda wild - It's now only publicly objectionable when its against an extremely privileged and powerful person?? Oh no !! /s Meanwhile that same person implicitly condones violence - for example getting in bed with the US gov. They don't need defending on HN.
- mindslight 5mo ago
  Have you not seen similar troll comments outright celebrating the actual deaths of ICE's victims, Iranians, Oct 7th victims, etc? I certainly have. Hell, at the last protest I went to there were people driving by cavalierly playing "Bomb Iran" (written in 1980, and trotted back out every time the topic is back in the zeitgeist). It seems like the only real difference there is abstraction. Supporting violence is [unfortunately] deeply embedded in our culture. Perhaps the popularity of this thread is causing you to preemptively seek out more terrible comments, rather than letting flagging do its thing? Maybe try looping over popular divisive threads, and reading the flagged short comments that didn't get many upvotes. There is a lot of fucking hate in the world. (and certainly a hat tip to you for making it your job to sort through it so we don't have to see much of it. But if this is hitting you differently (personally) than the usual flood does, perhaps you need to take a step back?)

by foxes 5mo ago

dang 5mo ago

> Not sure what world you have lived in for the past at least 10 years The world I have lived in for longer than 10 years is HN. I'm gut-wrenchingly familiar with the worst things that people post here—probably more than anyone, simply because it's my job. If you can dig up a single example of a thread this bad that we knew about and didn't do anything about, I'd be shocked, because it would go against everything I believe and feel. Perhaps you can, nonetheless? If so, let's see it. Here's what I mean by "this bad", if you want to calibrate: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47727099 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47727099 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47725722 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47725722 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47725717 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47725717 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47726427 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47726427 The number of people who feel that anything at all is justified if it reinforces their feelings—particularly their angriest and most vicious feelings—is so large that it's clear that it is human nature in action, and that makes me yearn for a cool and heavy rock to crawl under, with moist earth to sink into.

foxes 5mo ago
Well I'm not saying they don't get moderated eventually .. but the thread in reference https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47659135 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47659135 There was horrific racism on display right here. Perhaps it just seems part of the background noise to you .. but at the time, some of those posts felt just as bad as calls to violence or worse. But to compose something more substantial .. its probably all to much to neatly tie up in a single reply to a thread.
- dang 5mo ago
  > Well I'm not saying they don't get moderated eventually I'm going to interpret that as meaning that we do our job ok, just not instantenously—which would make sense, given that we're human and that would be humanly impossible. > There was horrific racism on display right here If there were any cases of that which we didn't do anything about, it would be because we didn't see them. I can't read everything that gets posted to Hacker News any more than you can; see "humanly impossible" above. But I'd like to see specific links. > Perhaps it just seems part of the background noise to you It does not "seem like part of the background noise" to me. What it "seems like" is wrenching my intenstines into an agonizing state on a regular basis and then driving a spike through them.
  - foxes 5mo ago
    Consider some more examples: trump or that other conservative figure getting shot. Or the ceo of the health company getting shot. Both of those people condone(d), support, amplify and drive horrific violence. A common liberal reaction to those incidents - "oh no violence isn't okay!!" - well where were you for all the other horrific things they did and said? Yes in some ideal world there perhaps wouldn't be violence - but I can understand people feeling like they had it coming. It's the boy who cried wolf. It's the bully getting their comeuppance. It can be hard to feel bad. Sama also talks about wanting ai to be the future, its pushed everywhere and the feeling is its going to take peoples jobs and disrupt everything. But there's no discussion about how we are going to look after everyone in that future. Current capitalistic (american) society doesn't seem built for that ... that lack of care already exists for a lot of people too who are homeless, poor etc. Being upset about samas front gate getting firebombed while they probably also had plenty of security .. well idk.
    - brandon272 5mo ago
      > Both of those people condone(d), support, amplify and drive horrific violence. This seems to be the point of contention. What constitutes "violence"? A lot of people seem to define violence as a purely physical act: a missile strike during a war, a fist hitting a face, a molotov cocktail thrown over a property line. What has become clear to me, especially when I saw the discourse around Luigi Mangione and the public opinion polling on it, is that a lot – a lot – of people define it much more broadly: a health insurance denial, a job lost as a result of some CEO's careless ambition, or mere words. The problem with a very broad definition of violence is that it permits a pretty barbaric worldview. If I cut someone off in traffic, or if a careless administrative action on my part costs someone money that then puts them in a financial pickle that month, is that violence? Do I then deserve to be tracked and assaulted? What about the doctor who is complicit in the refused treatment because the insurance company won't pay a bill? "I understand the insurance company isn't paying the bill but you are still going to treat me, and to not do so is a violent act." The list goes on. Can society function if the default action at real or perceived injustice is to just kill?
pillefitz 5mo ago
I wouldn't hold it against anyone wishing my great grandfather shouldn't have existed for playing a minor role in Nazi Germany. Altman is in cahoots with a government that just a few days ago threatened to end a whole civilization. So no, I don't understand where you are coming from or why you're disgusted at the comments you linked.
- foxes 5mo ago
  It's kinda wild - It's now only publicly objectionable when its against an extremely privileged and powerful person?? Oh no !! /s Meanwhile that same person implicitly condones violence - for example getting in bed with the US gov. They don't need defending on HN.
mindslight 5mo ago
Have you not seen similar troll comments outright celebrating the actual deaths of ICE's victims, Iranians, Oct 7th victims, etc? I certainly have. Hell, at the last protest I went to there were people driving by cavalierly playing "Bomb Iran" (written in 1980, and trotted back out every time the topic is back in the zeitgeist). It seems like the only real difference there is abstraction. Supporting violence is [unfortunately] deeply embedded in our culture. Perhaps the popularity of this thread is causing you to preemptively seek out more terrible comments, rather than letting flagging do its thing? Maybe try looping over popular divisive threads, and reading the flagged short comments that didn't get many upvotes. There is a lot of fucking hate in the world. (and certainly a hat tip to you for making it your job to sort through it so we don't have to see much of it. But if this is hitting you differently (personally) than the usual flood does, perhaps you need to take a step back?)