7 ms·

I assume they're referring to the brief bit in the post that indicates that oral ingestion leads to a breakdown that makes oral supplements of amino acids point

I assume they're referring to the brief bit in the post that indicates that oral ingestion leads to a breakdown that makes oral supplements of amino acids pointless. They say it very briefly and they don't really outright assert it, it's just a sort of implied aside.

A_D_E_P_T 6mo ago
Sweeping statements in biochemistry must be made with caution. It is well known that there are some small peptides that are absorbed following oral administration. ...BPC-157 itself is said to be among this class. As are certain milk tripeptides: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lactotripeptides https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lactotripeptides Interestingly enough, those two, as well as Gly-Pro-Hyp, are proline/hydroxyproline-rich, which might suggest that proline-rich small peptides are resistant to degradation in the gut. Anyway, in general oral proteins and peptides are broken down prior to systemic absorption, but not always...
- staticassertion 6mo ago
  I'm in agreement. It's the article that made the sweeping statement.
- oa335 6mo ago
  > It is well known that there are some small peptides that are absorbed following oral administration. ...BPC-157 itself is said to be among this class Do you know of any studies that suggest BPC-157 absorption from gut?
  - A_D_E_P_T 6mo ago
    https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1002/jor.21107 https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1002/jor.21107 Among others. If you read the paper, it's actually apparent that there's little difference between i.p. and oral administration in terms of efficacy -- both were roughly equally effective in improving MCL ligament healing. Admittedly the paper's in rats -- as are 99% of the others -- as there's no incentive for anybody to run human trials.
    - malfist 5mo ago
      You should note that your study is not controlled. There are two groups, those with oral administration those with sub-q administration. There is not group without administration. This means you can't say that oral vs injected is "equally effective" because you can't assert that BPC 157 is effective at all. You can't tease out the effect size because you don't know if any or all of the MCL ligament healing was done via normal pathways
      - staticassertion 5mo ago
        > This means you can't say that oral vs injected is "equally effective" because you can't assert that BPC 157 is effective at all Is that true? It seems that you can say that they were equally effective without quantifying an effect. It could be the case that both are equal in that neither has an effect, which this would validate. Then you can just point to other studies to claim effectiveness of injected.
      - A_D_E_P_T 5mo ago
        You just read the abstract and didn't read the full paper. There were control groups. > Methods: > [administration] as follows: (i) BPC 157 10 mg or 10 ng/kg or saline 5.0 ml/kg (controls), intraperitoneally, or (ii) BPC 157 in neutral cream (1.0 mg dissolved in distilled water/g commercial neutral cream) or commercial neutral cream (controls), as a thin layer, locally, at the site of injury, administered once daily with the first application 30 min after surgery and the final application 24 h before sacrifice; (iii) BPC 157 0.16 mg/ml or nothing (controls) in the drinking water (12 ml/day/rat) until sacrifice. There was a big difference vs. the control groups.
throwaway2037 6mo ago
Here is the exact quote: > You’re not going to be taking these things orally... These mail-order peptides are injectable items. Every single YouTube video and blog post I have read about peptites is exclusively about injectable supplements.
- staticassertion 6mo ago
  That's not the exact quote lol you cut out the exact part I was referring to. > because unless a really substantial amount of engineering has gone into it, any given peptide is going get the same treatment from your digestive system as a chicken breast does, i.e. a complete teardown > Every single YouTube video and blog post I have read about peptites is exclusively about injectable supplements. Collagen peptides, ghk-cu, and many other peptide supplements are often taken orally.
  - malfist 5mo ago
    > Collagen peptides, ghk-cu, and many other peptide supplements are often taken orally. And with very rare exceptions, it's as useful as watching someone workout when you want to gain muscle. Every meat we eat is awash in peptides, and to keep our body from getting hijacked by the signaling for, say a chicken, our body has to break down almost all peptides ingested orally. There are a few exceptions, notably there's one that is produced by our own bile acid, that can be taken orally, and then SNAC, which was developed by Novo Nordisk over thirty years and has extremely limited capabilities and is fully patented and cannot be made by your fly by night distributers. SNAC achieves a whopping 1% bioavailability of the peptide, and it's ability to work depends on the size of the peptide, specifically the only commercially available use for this is Rybelsus. Oral peptides are snake oil for the most part.
    - staticassertion 5mo ago
      > And with very rare exceptions, it's as useful as watching someone workout when you want to gain muscle. Who cares? I never made broad claims about their efficacy, the author did. > Oral peptides are snake oil for the most part. The author's claim is not nuanced by "for the most part", that's why I quoted it directly. Besides, I was merely clarifying what the other poster was likely referring to.

A_D_E_P_T 6mo ago

Sweeping statements in biochemistry must be made with caution. It is well known that there are some small peptides that are absorbed following oral administration. ...BPC-157 itself is said to be among this class. As are certain milk tripeptides: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lactotripeptides https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lactotripeptides Interestingly enough, those two, as well as Gly-Pro-Hyp, are proline/hydroxyproline-rich, which might suggest that proline-rich small peptides are resistant to degradation in the gut. Anyway, in general oral proteins and peptides are broken down prior to systemic absorption, but not always...

staticassertion 6mo ago
I'm in agreement. It's the article that made the sweeping statement.
oa335 6mo ago
> It is well known that there are some small peptides that are absorbed following oral administration. ...BPC-157 itself is said to be among this class Do you know of any studies that suggest BPC-157 absorption from gut?
- A_D_E_P_T 6mo ago
  https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1002/jor.21107 https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1002/jor.21107 Among others. If you read the paper, it's actually apparent that there's little difference between i.p. and oral administration in terms of efficacy -- both were roughly equally effective in improving MCL ligament healing. Admittedly the paper's in rats -- as are 99% of the others -- as there's no incentive for anybody to run human trials.
  - malfist 5mo ago
    You should note that your study is not controlled. There are two groups, those with oral administration those with sub-q administration. There is not group without administration. This means you can't say that oral vs injected is "equally effective" because you can't assert that BPC 157 is effective at all. You can't tease out the effect size because you don't know if any or all of the MCL ligament healing was done via normal pathways
    - staticassertion 5mo ago
      > This means you can't say that oral vs injected is "equally effective" because you can't assert that BPC 157 is effective at all Is that true? It seems that you can say that they were equally effective without quantifying an effect. It could be the case that both are equal in that neither has an effect, which this would validate. Then you can just point to other studies to claim effectiveness of injected.
    - A_D_E_P_T 5mo ago
      You just read the abstract and didn't read the full paper. There were control groups. > Methods: > [administration] as follows: (i) BPC 157 10 mg or 10 ng/kg or saline 5.0 ml/kg (controls), intraperitoneally, or (ii) BPC 157 in neutral cream (1.0 mg dissolved in distilled water/g commercial neutral cream) or commercial neutral cream (controls), as a thin layer, locally, at the site of injury, administered once daily with the first application 30 min after surgery and the final application 24 h before sacrifice; (iii) BPC 157 0.16 mg/ml or nothing (controls) in the drinking water (12 ml/day/rat) until sacrifice. There was a big difference vs. the control groups.

throwaway2037 6mo ago

Here is the exact quote: > You’re not going to be taking these things orally... These mail-order peptides are injectable items. Every single YouTube video and blog post I have read about peptites is exclusively about injectable supplements.

staticassertion 6mo ago
That's not the exact quote lol you cut out the exact part I was referring to. > because unless a really substantial amount of engineering has gone into it, any given peptide is going get the same treatment from your digestive system as a chicken breast does, i.e. a complete teardown > Every single YouTube video and blog post I have read about peptites is exclusively about injectable supplements. Collagen peptides, ghk-cu, and many other peptide supplements are often taken orally.
- malfist 5mo ago
  > Collagen peptides, ghk-cu, and many other peptide supplements are often taken orally. And with very rare exceptions, it's as useful as watching someone workout when you want to gain muscle. Every meat we eat is awash in peptides, and to keep our body from getting hijacked by the signaling for, say a chicken, our body has to break down almost all peptides ingested orally. There are a few exceptions, notably there's one that is produced by our own bile acid, that can be taken orally, and then SNAC, which was developed by Novo Nordisk over thirty years and has extremely limited capabilities and is fully patented and cannot be made by your fly by night distributers. SNAC achieves a whopping 1% bioavailability of the peptide, and it's ability to work depends on the size of the peptide, specifically the only commercially available use for this is Rybelsus. Oral peptides are snake oil for the most part.
  - staticassertion 5mo ago
    > And with very rare exceptions, it's as useful as watching someone workout when you want to gain muscle. Who cares? I never made broad claims about their efficacy, the author did. > Oral peptides are snake oil for the most part. The author's claim is not nuanced by "for the most part", that's why I quoted it directly. Besides, I was merely clarifying what the other poster was likely referring to.