7 ms·

Medicine doesn't really ignore nutrition, but the problem is: 1. Most people don't believe it anyway. People want to hear they can eat hamburgers and milkshake

Medicine doesn't really ignore nutrition, but the problem is: 1. Most people don't believe it anyway. People want to hear they can eat hamburgers and milkshakes and be healthy. Telling them "we know that gives you heart disease and cancer" does nothing. 2. Nutrition is complicated and different for every person, because everyone has different things they can tolerate. The "perfect" diet is actually worthless because it has a 0% success rate. Really, we have to optimize for how miserable people are willing to be. 3. Most people are unhealthy enough that nutrition is the least of their concerns. That sounds crazy, I know, but if you're obese (which most people are!), then priority is being not obese. Not your nutrition. I know those sound related but they're way less related than you think.

hammock 6mo ago
> Most people don't believe it anyway Maybe because so much of it is wrong, or (very charitably, as much is industry-biased) outdated? Lifestyle modification is a definite challenge and I’m not dismissing it. Still, hamburgers and milkshakes don’t give you heart disease and cancer. Overeating, oxidative stress from low-quality ingredients, etc might.
- jmye 6mo ago
  > Still, hamburgers and milkshakes don’t give you heart disease and cancer. Overeating, oxidative stress from low-quality ingredients, etc might. What? “Oxidative stress”? Oh come on, at least go full “seed oil” if we’re going to talk nonsense.
  - TeMPOraL 6mo ago
    We already left the land of reason far behind by the time OP implied hamburgers and milkshakes give people cancer.
    - vixen99 6mo ago
      Depends on the nutrients that comprise them to the extent they contain a lot of omega-6 or not. Not heart disease so much but the other killer - might as well mention in this context. 'A high omega-3, low omega-6 diet with FO for 1 year resulted in a significant reduction in Ki-67 index, a biomarker for prostate cancer'. https://doi.org/10.1200/JCO.24.00608 https://doi.org/10.1200/JCO.24.00608. Also Prostate Cancer and Prostatic Diseases (2024) 27:700 – 708 'Our preclinical findings provide rationale for clinical trials evaluating ω-3 fatty acids as a potential therapy for prostate cancer'. Seed oils are not as bad as painted but some caution is needed given for instance the industrial processes used to bring them to market sometimes. Plus the way the oils are cooked when they create free radicals. This is not nonsense.
    - array_key_first 6mo ago
      Red meat is a carcinogen, I don't know what to tell you.
      - TeMPOraL 5mo ago
        Everything is a carcinogen. Even water. Dose matters, and most of the "omg zomg causes cancer if you eat it!" dietary nonsense purposefully omits absolute amounts or base rates, lest you realize it's actually as likely to give you cancer as smiling at people. I don't know what else to tell you. Except maybe that if one gets this single concept, that quantities matter, it becomes immediately apparent why most of the "healthy eating" / fitness fads is just pure bullshit.
- JumpCrisscross 6mo ago
  > hamburgers and milkshakes don’t give you heart disease and cancer They absolutely do, particularly if you're getting most of your calories from them. If evidence-based medicine doesn't convince you, uh, hamburgers and supermarket milk tends to be processed.
  - stouset 6mo ago
    They absolutely do not, unless you’re getting too many calories. Individual foods are—with some exceptions—neither bad for you nor good for you. A healthy diet can occasionally include doughnuts, and milkshakes. Your overall diet is what matters.
    - JumpCrisscross 6mo ago
      Sure. We’re saying roughly the same thing. For most Americans, hamburgers cause heart disease because we don’t exercise enough or eat enough plants. If you’re backpacking twenty miles a day, sure, eat whatever, you won’t suffer inflammation or obesity from it. (Though you may run nutritional deficiencies. And you’re building bad habits for when your activity necessarily tapers off.)
      - stouset 6mo ago
        Hamburgers are not causing heart disease and diabetes for most Americans. Bad diets loaded with too many calories, too many saturated fats, and too many simple carbs are. Messaging matters. When you tell people hamburgers and bacon and everything they love are bad, they stop listening, give up, or just eat some other junk that wasn’t prohibited. When you tell them some foods are good, they start buying into superfood marketing. Diet is the only thing that matters. Lots of veggies are extremely useful because they add bulk without adding calories, and along with fresh fruits are great sources of fiber. Cheeseburgers can only come so often because they’re extremely calorie dense and send enormous reward signals to your brain. Give people the tools they need to thrive, not just “don’t eat these specific bad foods, eat these specific good foods”.
    - samus 6mo ago
deleted 6mo ago
[deleted]

hammock 6mo ago

> Most people don't believe it anyway Maybe because so much of it is wrong, or (very charitably, as much is industry-biased) outdated? Lifestyle modification is a definite challenge and I’m not dismissing it. Still, hamburgers and milkshakes don’t give you heart disease and cancer. Overeating, oxidative stress from low-quality ingredients, etc might.

jmye 6mo ago
> Still, hamburgers and milkshakes don’t give you heart disease and cancer. Overeating, oxidative stress from low-quality ingredients, etc might. What? “Oxidative stress”? Oh come on, at least go full “seed oil” if we’re going to talk nonsense.
- TeMPOraL 6mo ago
  We already left the land of reason far behind by the time OP implied hamburgers and milkshakes give people cancer.
  - vixen99 6mo ago
    Depends on the nutrients that comprise them to the extent they contain a lot of omega-6 or not. Not heart disease so much but the other killer - might as well mention in this context. 'A high omega-3, low omega-6 diet with FO for 1 year resulted in a significant reduction in Ki-67 index, a biomarker for prostate cancer'. https://doi.org/10.1200/JCO.24.00608 https://doi.org/10.1200/JCO.24.00608. Also Prostate Cancer and Prostatic Diseases (2024) 27:700 – 708 'Our preclinical findings provide rationale for clinical trials evaluating ω-3 fatty acids as a potential therapy for prostate cancer'. Seed oils are not as bad as painted but some caution is needed given for instance the industrial processes used to bring them to market sometimes. Plus the way the oils are cooked when they create free radicals. This is not nonsense.
  - array_key_first 6mo ago
    Red meat is a carcinogen, I don't know what to tell you.
    - TeMPOraL 5mo ago
      Everything is a carcinogen. Even water. Dose matters, and most of the "omg zomg causes cancer if you eat it!" dietary nonsense purposefully omits absolute amounts or base rates, lest you realize it's actually as likely to give you cancer as smiling at people. I don't know what else to tell you. Except maybe that if one gets this single concept, that quantities matter, it becomes immediately apparent why most of the "healthy eating" / fitness fads is just pure bullshit.
JumpCrisscross 6mo ago
> hamburgers and milkshakes don’t give you heart disease and cancer They absolutely do, particularly if you're getting most of your calories from them. If evidence-based medicine doesn't convince you, uh, hamburgers and supermarket milk tends to be processed.
- stouset 6mo ago
  They absolutely do not, unless you’re getting too many calories. Individual foods are—with some exceptions—neither bad for you nor good for you. A healthy diet can occasionally include doughnuts, and milkshakes. Your overall diet is what matters.
  - JumpCrisscross 6mo ago
    Sure. We’re saying roughly the same thing. For most Americans, hamburgers cause heart disease because we don’t exercise enough or eat enough plants. If you’re backpacking twenty miles a day, sure, eat whatever, you won’t suffer inflammation or obesity from it. (Though you may run nutritional deficiencies. And you’re building bad habits for when your activity necessarily tapers off.)
    - stouset 6mo ago
      Hamburgers are not causing heart disease and diabetes for most Americans. Bad diets loaded with too many calories, too many saturated fats, and too many simple carbs are. Messaging matters. When you tell people hamburgers and bacon and everything they love are bad, they stop listening, give up, or just eat some other junk that wasn’t prohibited. When you tell them some foods are good, they start buying into superfood marketing. Diet is the only thing that matters. Lots of veggies are extremely useful because they add bulk without adding calories, and along with fresh fruits are great sources of fiber. Cheeseburgers can only come so often because they’re extremely calorie dense and send enormous reward signals to your brain. Give people the tools they need to thrive, not just “don’t eat these specific bad foods, eat these specific good foods”.
  - samus 6mo ago

deleted 6mo ago

[deleted]