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Yes. What do you think happens in a competitive marketplace? Sony heard about Nintendo partnering up with Philips for the SNES CD expansion, so Sony made their

Yes. What do you think happens in a competitive marketplace? Sony heard about Nintendo partnering up with Philips for the SNES CD expansion, so Sony made their own console. That's literally competition. The details of how the "public pressure" came to be don't matter, because the monopoly didn't know about that. All they knew was there was a potential competitor, so they behaved according to that information. That's how it works.

karlgkk 5mo ago
Frankly, I think you're trying to poke holes in a straightforward concept. And now you've dug your heels in and you're trying to justify it. But... let's ignore opinions and interpretations... > Sony heard about Nintendo partnering up with Philips for the SNES CD expansion, so Sony made their own console This is completely inaccurate in every way possible. You even have the order of events backwards (Nintendo and Sony partnered first). There is in no way in which even the most charitable interpretation of this statement could bear out. Just about the only correct part is that you have some (but not all!) of the relevant parties involved. If you're wrong about such a well documented, cut and dry matter of historical record, then what else are you wrong about? :)
- drfloyd51 5mo ago
  That isn’t actually refuting his original argument. Just proving his example false. Then you beg the question with a bit of a straw man fallacy thrown in.
  - karlgkk 5mo ago
    > That isn’t actually refuting his original argument. Just proving his example false. Correct. It is extremely false. And it's an extremely well documented event, as well. > Then you beg the question with a bit of a straw man fallacy thrown in. I expressed my opinion. I did not misrepresent that person's argument (i didn't represent it at all). As for begging the question, well, I'm not sure what you're referring to, unless you mean the intensely cut and dry sequence of historical events? In which case... well, they're so unaligned with reality that it's comical.
deleted 5mo ago
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hrimfaxi 5mo ago
I don't understand this line of thinking. The spreading of a false rumor is an example of a competitive marketplace? If this took place in a different domain wouldn't it be fraud? That it was in the public benefit seems orthogonal.
- irishcoffee 5mo ago
  It is not fraud to claim that one is considering doing something, and publishing that information. Imagine how that would actually play out if you were right. (You’re not)
  - hrimfaxi 5mo ago
    But in the case of the grand parent the company had no intention of following through and did it seemingly at the request of the friend. > one day, one of the municipal counselors just called up a friend who worked for a fiber laying company and asked them for a favor: put out a press release saying that they were “investigating” laying an undersea fiber to power a municipal fiber network on the little island.
- kulahan 5mo ago
  Yes, if a simple unsubstantiated rumor is enough to get your competitors to spend potentially millions of dollars to fight you, that's a competition. Literally what else could it be? It can be two things, anyways. You can utilize fraud to manage your competitors expectations. CEOs lie constantly about the state their products are in, in order to drum up more sales. It has absolutely zero requirement to be beneficial to the public in order to be a competitive marketplace. They're also competing to make as much profit as possible, which has effectively zero benefit for the public.
  - WalterBright 5mo ago
    > They're also competing to make as much profit as possible, which has effectively zero benefit for the public. The end result is plenty of cheap stuff for people to buy. It's why free markets have full supermarkets and socialist markets have long lines. Take the free market in software, for example. My entire software stack on my linux box cost me $0.
xboxnolifes 5mo ago
Maybe i misinterpreted the original comment, but having the government step in to pressure a company is not usually what i find people mean when they talk about competitive markets. Let alone when the pressure is through a side channel.

karlgkk 5mo ago

Frankly, I think you're trying to poke holes in a straightforward concept. And now you've dug your heels in and you're trying to justify it. But... let's ignore opinions and interpretations... > Sony heard about Nintendo partnering up with Philips for the SNES CD expansion, so Sony made their own console This is completely inaccurate in every way possible. You even have the order of events backwards (Nintendo and Sony partnered first). There is in no way in which even the most charitable interpretation of this statement could bear out. Just about the only correct part is that you have some (but not all!) of the relevant parties involved. If you're wrong about such a well documented, cut and dry matter of historical record, then what else are you wrong about? :)

drfloyd51 5mo ago
That isn’t actually refuting his original argument. Just proving his example false. Then you beg the question with a bit of a straw man fallacy thrown in.
- karlgkk 5mo ago
  > That isn’t actually refuting his original argument. Just proving his example false. Correct. It is extremely false. And it's an extremely well documented event, as well. > Then you beg the question with a bit of a straw man fallacy thrown in. I expressed my opinion. I did not misrepresent that person's argument (i didn't represent it at all). As for begging the question, well, I'm not sure what you're referring to, unless you mean the intensely cut and dry sequence of historical events? In which case... well, they're so unaligned with reality that it's comical.

deleted 5mo ago

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hrimfaxi 5mo ago

I don't understand this line of thinking. The spreading of a false rumor is an example of a competitive marketplace? If this took place in a different domain wouldn't it be fraud? That it was in the public benefit seems orthogonal.

irishcoffee 5mo ago
It is not fraud to claim that one is considering doing something, and publishing that information. Imagine how that would actually play out if you were right. (You’re not)
- hrimfaxi 5mo ago
  But in the case of the grand parent the company had no intention of following through and did it seemingly at the request of the friend. > one day, one of the municipal counselors just called up a friend who worked for a fiber laying company and asked them for a favor: put out a press release saying that they were “investigating” laying an undersea fiber to power a municipal fiber network on the little island.
kulahan 5mo ago
Yes, if a simple unsubstantiated rumor is enough to get your competitors to spend potentially millions of dollars to fight you, that's a competition. Literally what else could it be? It can be two things, anyways. You can utilize fraud to manage your competitors expectations. CEOs lie constantly about the state their products are in, in order to drum up more sales. It has absolutely zero requirement to be beneficial to the public in order to be a competitive marketplace. They're also competing to make as much profit as possible, which has effectively zero benefit for the public.
- WalterBright 5mo ago
  > They're also competing to make as much profit as possible, which has effectively zero benefit for the public. The end result is plenty of cheap stuff for people to buy. It's why free markets have full supermarkets and socialist markets have long lines. Take the free market in software, for example. My entire software stack on my linux box cost me $0.

xboxnolifes 5mo ago

Maybe i misinterpreted the original comment, but having the government step in to pressure a company is not usually what i find people mean when they talk about competitive markets. Let alone when the pressure is through a side channel.