5 ms·

This is only for citizen not refugees/immigrants so both MEA and NA folks can chill.

huggerl88 6mo ago
[flagged]
mothballed 6mo ago
Yes the US has a more insidious "hidden" law that I'm amazed Trump has not used to his advantage. It's a felony for the younger illegal immigrants males who are eligible to not register for the draft (most visa and legally visa exempt tourists are exempt, but the exemption falls off if you fall out of status). Almost none of them do, meaning almost all undocumented military-age-males are actively committing a serious crime.
- tasuki 6mo ago
  It's either generousness or incompetence.
ihsw 6mo ago
Why aren't refugees/immigrants conscripted over citizens?
- carlosjobim 6mo ago
  Because immigrants have the right to be protected, while native men have a duty to die for their rulers.
- AdrianB1 6mo ago
  Because not only that the immigrants have no allegiance to Germany, most have different culture and sometimes incompatible values. I grew up in the Middle East and I can tell that cultural differences and values were more smooth and compatible than what I saw in Germany. Conscription requires a degree of trust in the people you give guns to and expect to fight on your side in case it is needed, that is mostly not true with immigrants in all times and all countries.
  - ndarray 6mo ago
    Ten years of "refugees welcome" to fighting age men who we don't trust won't run amok when we go to war with a third party. Very cool.
- jltsiren 6mo ago
  Because citizenship is a commitment, not merely a set of privileges. If you obtain a citizenship (or have it imposed on you upon birth), it comes with a set of duties other residents and visitors do not have. The duty to defend your country is a traditional one. Some countries may conscript non-citizens or allow them to serve voluntarily. Often because they are more likely to use the military as an extension of foreign policy rather than for defense. Others may see it a waste of effort, as those people are probably not sufficiently committed to the continued existence of the country.
  - randomNumber7 6mo ago
    Do I have the right to give my citizenship away if I don't want it anymore?
  - snovymgodym 6mo ago
    The philosophical justifications sound nice and all. The thing is that when you have a huge non-citizen percentage of the population that is actively drawing taxpayer money out of the state to the point where the social welfare system is beginning to break down, and you have the working citizens of the country being taxed at 50% or more to support that during an escalating global cost of living crisis, you have effectively destroyed the social contract around citizenship that permits this system to function. For the massive aged population that's drawing retiree benefits, there's at least the justification that they paid into the system during their lifetime, even if the equation that makes the retirement system work increasingly doesn't work anymore. Now the young people are being told to go die to keep that system alive. I wouldn't be surprised if most don't.
- TMWNN 6mo ago
  Even if they are included, they wouldn't join up. More British Muslims joined ISIS than the British military. <https://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/19/magazine/her-majestys-jihadists.html https://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/19/magazine/her-majestys-jih...>
  - throwawaypath 6mo ago
    That statistic is mind boggling. Surprised this hatefact hasn't been flagged yet.
jbm 6mo ago
Dunno how it is in Germany but quite a few of my non white friends wound up in the Canadian Army. I don't know why immigration is brought up in this conversation at all.
- School-Cotton 6mo ago
  There are a lot of non-white citizens of Canada (and Germany) whereas the comment you’re replying to is about non-citizens. Also Canada hasn’t had conscription for a long time as far as I know, the friends you refer to were volunteers.
- AdrianB1 6mo ago
  It is about citizenship, not race.
throwawaypath 6mo ago
MENA folks would just flee to the next European host or back to the country they fled from if conscription begins.

[flagged]

Yes the US has a more insidious "hidden" law that I'm amazed Trump has not used to his advantage. It's a felony for the younger illegal immigrants males who are eligible to not register for the draft (most visa and legally visa exempt tourists are exempt, but the exemption falls off if you fall out of status). Almost none of them do, meaning almost all undocumented military-age-males are actively committing a serious crime.

tasuki 6mo ago
It's either generousness or incompetence.

ihsw 6mo ago

Why aren't refugees/immigrants conscripted over citizens?

carlosjobim 6mo ago
Because immigrants have the right to be protected, while native men have a duty to die for their rulers.
AdrianB1 6mo ago
Because not only that the immigrants have no allegiance to Germany, most have different culture and sometimes incompatible values. I grew up in the Middle East and I can tell that cultural differences and values were more smooth and compatible than what I saw in Germany. Conscription requires a degree of trust in the people you give guns to and expect to fight on your side in case it is needed, that is mostly not true with immigrants in all times and all countries.
- ndarray 6mo ago
  Ten years of "refugees welcome" to fighting age men who we don't trust won't run amok when we go to war with a third party. Very cool.
jltsiren 6mo ago
Because citizenship is a commitment, not merely a set of privileges. If you obtain a citizenship (or have it imposed on you upon birth), it comes with a set of duties other residents and visitors do not have. The duty to defend your country is a traditional one. Some countries may conscript non-citizens or allow them to serve voluntarily. Often because they are more likely to use the military as an extension of foreign policy rather than for defense. Others may see it a waste of effort, as those people are probably not sufficiently committed to the continued existence of the country.
- randomNumber7 6mo ago
  Do I have the right to give my citizenship away if I don't want it anymore?
- snovymgodym 6mo ago
  The philosophical justifications sound nice and all. The thing is that when you have a huge non-citizen percentage of the population that is actively drawing taxpayer money out of the state to the point where the social welfare system is beginning to break down, and you have the working citizens of the country being taxed at 50% or more to support that during an escalating global cost of living crisis, you have effectively destroyed the social contract around citizenship that permits this system to function. For the massive aged population that's drawing retiree benefits, there's at least the justification that they paid into the system during their lifetime, even if the equation that makes the retirement system work increasingly doesn't work anymore. Now the young people are being told to go die to keep that system alive. I wouldn't be surprised if most don't.
TMWNN 6mo ago
Even if they are included, they wouldn't join up. More British Muslims joined ISIS than the British military. <https://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/19/magazine/her-majestys-jihadists.html https://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/19/magazine/her-majestys-jih...>
- throwawaypath 6mo ago
  That statistic is mind boggling. Surprised this hatefact hasn't been flagged yet.

jbm 6mo ago

Dunno how it is in Germany but quite a few of my non white friends wound up in the Canadian Army. I don't know why immigration is brought up in this conversation at all.

School-Cotton 6mo ago
There are a lot of non-white citizens of Canada (and Germany) whereas the comment you’re replying to is about non-citizens. Also Canada hasn’t had conscription for a long time as far as I know, the friends you refer to were volunteers.
AdrianB1 6mo ago
It is about citizenship, not race.

throwawaypath 6mo ago

MENA folks would just flee to the next European host or back to the country they fled from if conscription begins.