6 ms·

I know this snarky, I'm sorry ahead of time. But I don't know how else to make this point... The fact that the people running r/progamming don't know not to wa

by jyrkesh 6mo ago

I know this snarky, I'm sorry ahead of time. But I don't know how else to make this point... The fact that the people running r/progamming don't know not to wait until April 2 to publish this tells me that they don't have real-world experience in shipping software in a business environment. We are SO past the point of software being developed without LLMs at _all_, the trend line is never going to reverse. I don't understand the people digging in as zero LLM absolutists.

klustregrif 6mo ago
> I don't understand the people digging in as zero LLM absolutists. Relevant read: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luddite https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luddite I feel like it’s easy to understand what’s motivating these individuals to take that stance.
- yoz-y 6mo ago
  Definitely not the same. Luddites were fighting for humane working conditions; breaking machines was just a means to an end. They weren’t doing it because machines were the problem. Anti AI crowd on the other hand just doesn’t like AI. A modern equivalent of a Luddite would be someone going on strike to protest firings.
  - southerntofu 6mo ago
    You are being overly dismissive of a mindset you obviously don't understand. Of course being anti-AI is about decent living conditions for humans. Most of us don't believe in singularity or Matrix-style threats. But current AI is actively destroying our breathable/livable planet by drawing unmatched quantities of resources (see also DRAM shortage, etc), all the while exploiting millions of non-union workers across the world (for classification/transcription/review), and all this for two goals: 1) try to replace human labor: problem is we know any extracted value (if at all) will benefit the bourgeoisie and will never be redistributed to the masses, because that's exactly what happened with the previous industrial revolutions (Asimov-style socialism is not exactly around the corner) 2) try to surveil everyone with cameras and microphones everywhere, and build armed (semi-)autonomous robots to guard our bourgeois masters and their data centers There is nothing in this entire project that can be interpreted to benefit the workers. People opposing AI are just lucid about who that's benefiting, and in that sense the luddite comparison is very appropriate.
    - yoz-y 6mo ago
      You have misinterpreted my comment. But I concede that I should have written it more clearly. I divide anti-AI people into two groups. Those who don’t like AI because of what it is, and those who don’t like it because of its impact on society. Naturally there is an overlap. Luddites were not opposed to the technology. So the comparison to them is only correct for the latter group. Not talking about LLMs on a forum is not going to change anything in the grand scheme of things. It could be a protest, but I see it more (the feeling I get from the announcement) as a means to protect the forum from being overrun regardless whether AI is ultimately good or bad. Also note that nowhere in my comment I have stated my position in this argument.
      - southerntofu 6mo ago
        Sorry for misinterpreting your original comment. I'm not really convinced there's people who don't like AI "because of what it is". I mean, because of what it is, beyond any social/political considerations. The only case i know of that is when there was an open letter with Sam Altman and other AI investors calling out the existential danger of AI, which in my view was a way to divert the debate from political questions to hypothetical Matrix/Terminator questions about consciousness and singularity.
        em-bee 6mo ago
        really? is it so hard to believe that people dislike AI because it is unreliable, can't be trusted, changes how we work with code, takes the fun out of coding? i am not worried about social consequences. society can adapt. i am also not worried about energy use. we have endless clean energy if we can figure out how to use it. yes, i am worried about society choosing the wrong adaption. that is, i believe we should train everyone to be teachers, doctors scientists, and artists. the stuff that AI should not be doing. but i am not worried about using AI for automation, putting people out of jobs. if we give them the opportunity to learn new jobs and, IF, AND ONLY IF, we get AI to do it's work with 100% reliability and accuracy. only then AI will be useful. i have tons of software projects that i'd like to get done. but i can't trust AI to do them for me, because i would spend even more time to verify the results than i would to code it myself. so yeah, i absolutely don't like AI for what it is, a tool with limited uses that requires me to work in a way i don't want, if i want to benefit from it.
btheunissen 6mo ago
I hate AI video, I hate AI art, but if you are pretending that AI isn’t going be writing code for 99% of projects going forward you are absolutely kidding yourself.
- duskdozer 6mo ago
  AI video and art is going to be increasingly used in advertising, news/reporting, games, etc. Therefore, you aren't allowed to hate it or even complain about it. Right?
- hperrin 6mo ago
  AI will be writing the code for shit-slop apps and libraries. The good ones will be written by humans.
tovej 6mo ago
I have yet to run into any serious project in the wild that is using LLMs for development. I have seen vibecoded intern prototypes that took half a day to vet and dismiss because they were completely useless. I'm sure your experience is different, but you can't _seriously_ claim we're "past the point" of not using LLMs for programming. Vibecoding is a fundamentally different kind of activity than actual programming. It's a pure delusional dopamine rush, compared to the deliberate engineering required to build quality software.
- ok_dad 6mo ago
  It’s juvenile to consider all LLM assisted coding as vibecoding. I’m not going to expand here because this topic is about as much fun to discuss as politics, but coding assistant tools are just tools. If you give a regular person a race car, they will crash it about as fast as their vibecoded app crashes. Give the same race car to a pro age it’s a different story. I still think this was the right decision by the programming mods there. Talking about tools is pretty boring, and you need to train to use something like an LLM assistant. No one who can’t program a language should be using an LLM to learn it unless they know about 2-3 other languages already, IMO.
  - apsurd 6mo ago
    Nah I think it really is more nuanced than that. It is true that a non-technical person's vibe-coded side-hustle is completely different than how a professional developer may ship genAI code, but we're willfully glossing over the real problem that professionals are pushing out TONS of genAI code that's closer to vibes than it is to the pre-AI expectations on pushing to prod.
    - ok_dad 6mo ago
      Devs that are pushing crappy code using these tools are 1) devs who would have pushed shut code anyways 2) getting stress from above to push code faster with AI Good devs will learn to use these tools effectively.
- apsurd 6mo ago
Mashimo 6mo ago
I think they just don't want every post to be about llm, vibe coding, harness and if claude is down. Some sub reddits forbid memes, because else they get flooded and the good content drowns in it. Some sub reddits only allow certain content of certain days to counter this. What do you want to mods to do?
balgg 6mo ago
I use LLMs yet I don't care to read about them or their usage at all. I can certainly see the reason why a place called "/r/programming" wouldn't want to have discussion about agent usage either, since it's not programming, it's a different activity.
- petterroea 6mo ago
  Yeah I totally get the rule. I use LLMs when developing. In fact, I've been out of Claude tokens for the week since Wednesday, but I use Claude specifically for the boring, simple stuff I don't really want to do, but that Claude can. I'm simply not interested in discussing anything LLMs are able to do, it's not interesting. It makes sense that a programming subreddit first and foremost discusses programming (the skill). We can go complain about Claude somewhere else if we want to.
  - petterroea 6mo ago
    Following up, anecdotally, people I talk to who are excited about LLM development usually either care more about product development, or don't have programming skill enough to see how bad the software is. Nothing wrong with either, but it can get tiresome.
    - balgg 6mo ago
      > people I talk to who are excited about LLM development usually either care more about product development This is an interesting thing I've also noticed in public hobbyist forums/discussion spaces where someone who is more interested in making a "product" clashes with people who are just there to talk about the activity itself. It's unfortunate that it happens but it will self-correct over time (like /r/programming here) and the LLM enthusiasts of Reddit will find another place to discuss ways of using them.
- singularity2001 6mo ago
  If you use them, you should care because there is always something one can learn about things we use.
csin 6mo ago
It may not be a, in denial, hiding their heads in the sand situation. Sometimes a topic gets too popular, it drowns out all the other topics. At that point, aren't they just a glorified version of r/llm? I'll give you one personal example: The year Caitlin Clark was drafted to the wnba. r/wnba went from a subreddit of 9000, to eventually 200k subs. We were bombarded with CC posts every hour. - Some of it was trolls staging a race war (this was during US elections). - Some of it was genuine CC fans, who wanted to talk about CC. - Some of it was bball nerds, who you know... wanted to talk about a bball player in a bball forum (regardless of who that bball player happens to be). So what happened was, at any given day, 80% of the front page was CC content. At that point, we might as well have been r/caitlinclark. So the mods did something drastic and controversial. They banned all "low effort" CC content. WTF does "low effort" mean? It pretty much meant 99% of CC posts got removed. The forum went back to something that resembled a bball forum. That talked about other players. And other teams. Not just Caitlin Clark.
vanrohan 6mo ago
I know LLM generated code comes with it's own challenges, but the absolutists are definitely clinging to a time that has passed. I saw a recent discussion on Immich where a maintainer flatout denied a PR saying "That diff looks LLM-generated to me; is that indeed the case? If so, we'd prefer not to receive a PR for it" The PR was from a professional software engineer, who worked weeks of his free time on a big feature. Well structured + tested. Dismissed just because AI was used. https://github.com/immich-app/immich/discussions/23745#discussioncomment-15987564 https://github.com/immich-app/immich/discussions/23745#discu...
- 59nadir 6mo ago
  "Well structured + tested". Who would know? The diff is almost 200k changed lines. Good on them for saying no to this nonsense. There's a good chance the actual needed implementation is less than 20k lines (I've found that LLM bloat grows exponentially), but even that's a stretch to review and accept wholesale.
  - Deeds67 6mo ago
    I'm the person working on that fork. Yes, it has now diverged 200k+ lines, but half of that is specs, research and documentation and includes a month worth of work. The comment in question was a small feature of about 1.5k lines changed and it was solidly tested.
    - 59nadir 6mo ago
      Eh, fair enough. 1.5k is reasonable. Have you tried just writing it yourself instead? It's likely it'll be less than 1k lines and you should have no problems writing an implementation yourself if you understand the structure of the LLM version.
      - Deeds67 6mo ago
        Why would I write it myself? I use Claude code 12 hours a day and I'm really confident with want I'm able to build with it. I use it at work with incredible results. Spec driven development with harnessing is super powerful, I'll never be writing large features hy hand again. Look at what I'm able to achieve in my free time after work https://opennoodle.de https://opennoodle.de Would've never had the time without my army of agents
minebreaker 6mo ago
> The fact that the people running r/progamming don't know not to wait until April 2 to publish this tells me that they don't have real-world experience in shipping software in a business environment. I can't tell this is a joke or not. Do people really care? Or maybe the U.S. thing? At least in my country nobody cares....
austin-cheney 6mo ago
This seems to be a matter of industry and a perspective, like saying everyone loves chocolate. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_populum https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_populum I have no reason to believe AI is used as much or as widely as you claim. In my industry AI is fully available and was almost forced on us, and yet nobody is using it. The process of using AI and then scrutinizing the output is just more work than doing it manually. The most I encounter AI is when running job interviews and watching candidates read AI generated answers off a screen. My industry also tends to skew much older than where I came from previously writing JavaScript full time. We are also fully remote with lots of status meetings. If I were less confident in my ability to communicate in writing maybe I would be more inclined to use AI. I also don’t really envision AI accomplishing my multitude of daily managerial and administrative assignments that I have in addition to agile stories and writing code. Comparatively, writing code is the trivial part.
ModernMech 6mo ago
lol yeah the people running the programming subreddit don't understand social context, who could have guessed?
tarsinge 6mo ago
> We are SO past the point of software being developed without LLMs at _all_ That's exactly why I've given up on programming, development or career subreddits. There are a lot of interesting software engineering challenges opening up, but instead of discussing it like professionals it all gets drowned in a big negative mixture of rants against the financial AI bubble, companies using AI as an excuse to lay off, and a general antiwork vibe. All these subreddits have become feel good/bad echo chambers for angry teens and students with no real world professional experience.
- AlexeyBelov 6mo ago
  So you really don't understand why people with real professional experience might be anxious now, and why there is an antiwork vibe? It's not just junior devs.
  - tarsinge 6mo ago
    I understand why they might be anxious, but my point is it’s unrelated to the technology itself. Imagine people denying the internet works in 2000 because of the Dotcom bubble. Same with layoffs, they are not really due to AI (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2026_United_States_corporate_mass_layoffs https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2026_United_States_corporate_m...), it’s a political discussion. And the antiwork vibe is not new, I have strong political convictions on how we should more equally redistribute capital gains so that even if AI was able to replace software engineers it would not be an issue but again that is political. LLMs tooling brings a lot to senior devs. I have 15 YOE, I own a small agency, we are shipping faster, with less bugs, and believe it or not we are hiring, because we are able to take more work and grow, as it is logical without the political issues plaguing the US in particular. The market is already adjusting, hence why to me we are way past the point of developing professionally without LLMs. So no I don’t get why the political topics are not discussed elsewhere and the irrational denial of the technology because of said political issues.
estimator7292 6mo ago
If you can possibly believe it, there are millions of programmers who have never and will never touch <your favorite tool> Python, cmake, bash, perl, every conceivable tool or language, there's millions of people in the industry who will never touch them. This might be a wild concept, so make sure you're sitting down: the field of software engineering is unfathomably larger than your personal, extremely narrow, viewpoint.

by jyrkesh 6mo ago

klustregrif 6mo ago

> I don't understand the people digging in as zero LLM absolutists. Relevant read: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luddite https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luddite I feel like it’s easy to understand what’s motivating these individuals to take that stance.

yoz-y 6mo ago
Definitely not the same. Luddites were fighting for humane working conditions; breaking machines was just a means to an end. They weren’t doing it because machines were the problem. Anti AI crowd on the other hand just doesn’t like AI. A modern equivalent of a Luddite would be someone going on strike to protest firings.
- southerntofu 6mo ago
  You are being overly dismissive of a mindset you obviously don't understand. Of course being anti-AI is about decent living conditions for humans. Most of us don't believe in singularity or Matrix-style threats. But current AI is actively destroying our breathable/livable planet by drawing unmatched quantities of resources (see also DRAM shortage, etc), all the while exploiting millions of non-union workers across the world (for classification/transcription/review), and all this for two goals: 1) try to replace human labor: problem is we know any extracted value (if at all) will benefit the bourgeoisie and will never be redistributed to the masses, because that's exactly what happened with the previous industrial revolutions (Asimov-style socialism is not exactly around the corner) 2) try to surveil everyone with cameras and microphones everywhere, and build armed (semi-)autonomous robots to guard our bourgeois masters and their data centers There is nothing in this entire project that can be interpreted to benefit the workers. People opposing AI are just lucid about who that's benefiting, and in that sense the luddite comparison is very appropriate.
  - yoz-y 6mo ago
    You have misinterpreted my comment. But I concede that I should have written it more clearly. I divide anti-AI people into two groups. Those who don’t like AI because of what it is, and those who don’t like it because of its impact on society. Naturally there is an overlap. Luddites were not opposed to the technology. So the comparison to them is only correct for the latter group. Not talking about LLMs on a forum is not going to change anything in the grand scheme of things. It could be a protest, but I see it more (the feeling I get from the announcement) as a means to protect the forum from being overrun regardless whether AI is ultimately good or bad. Also note that nowhere in my comment I have stated my position in this argument.
    - southerntofu 6mo ago
      Sorry for misinterpreting your original comment. I'm not really convinced there's people who don't like AI "because of what it is". I mean, because of what it is, beyond any social/political considerations. The only case i know of that is when there was an open letter with Sam Altman and other AI investors calling out the existential danger of AI, which in my view was a way to divert the debate from political questions to hypothetical Matrix/Terminator questions about consciousness and singularity.
      - em-bee 6mo ago
        really? is it so hard to believe that people dislike AI because it is unreliable, can't be trusted, changes how we work with code, takes the fun out of coding? i am not worried about social consequences. society can adapt. i am also not worried about energy use. we have endless clean energy if we can figure out how to use it. yes, i am worried about society choosing the wrong adaption. that is, i believe we should train everyone to be teachers, doctors scientists, and artists. the stuff that AI should not be doing. but i am not worried about using AI for automation, putting people out of jobs. if we give them the opportunity to learn new jobs and, IF, AND ONLY IF, we get AI to do it's work with 100% reliability and accuracy. only then AI will be useful. i have tons of software projects that i'd like to get done. but i can't trust AI to do them for me, because i would spend even more time to verify the results than i would to code it myself. so yeah, i absolutely don't like AI for what it is, a tool with limited uses that requires me to work in a way i don't want, if i want to benefit from it.

btheunissen 6mo ago

I hate AI video, I hate AI art, but if you are pretending that AI isn’t going be writing code for 99% of projects going forward you are absolutely kidding yourself.

duskdozer 6mo ago
AI video and art is going to be increasingly used in advertising, news/reporting, games, etc. Therefore, you aren't allowed to hate it or even complain about it. Right?
hperrin 6mo ago
AI will be writing the code for shit-slop apps and libraries. The good ones will be written by humans.

tovej 6mo ago

I have yet to run into any serious project in the wild that is using LLMs for development. I have seen vibecoded intern prototypes that took half a day to vet and dismiss because they were completely useless. I'm sure your experience is different, but you can't _seriously_ claim we're "past the point" of not using LLMs for programming. Vibecoding is a fundamentally different kind of activity than actual programming. It's a pure delusional dopamine rush, compared to the deliberate engineering required to build quality software.

ok_dad 6mo ago
It’s juvenile to consider all LLM assisted coding as vibecoding. I’m not going to expand here because this topic is about as much fun to discuss as politics, but coding assistant tools are just tools. If you give a regular person a race car, they will crash it about as fast as their vibecoded app crashes. Give the same race car to a pro age it’s a different story. I still think this was the right decision by the programming mods there. Talking about tools is pretty boring, and you need to train to use something like an LLM assistant. No one who can’t program a language should be using an LLM to learn it unless they know about 2-3 other languages already, IMO.
- apsurd 6mo ago
  Nah I think it really is more nuanced than that. It is true that a non-technical person's vibe-coded side-hustle is completely different than how a professional developer may ship genAI code, but we're willfully glossing over the real problem that professionals are pushing out TONS of genAI code that's closer to vibes than it is to the pre-AI expectations on pushing to prod.
  - ok_dad 6mo ago
    Devs that are pushing crappy code using these tools are 1) devs who would have pushed shut code anyways 2) getting stress from above to push code faster with AI Good devs will learn to use these tools effectively.
apsurd 6mo ago

Mashimo 6mo ago

I think they just don't want every post to be about llm, vibe coding, harness and if claude is down. Some sub reddits forbid memes, because else they get flooded and the good content drowns in it. Some sub reddits only allow certain content of certain days to counter this. What do you want to mods to do?

balgg 6mo ago

I use LLMs yet I don't care to read about them or their usage at all. I can certainly see the reason why a place called "/r/programming" wouldn't want to have discussion about agent usage either, since it's not programming, it's a different activity.

petterroea 6mo ago
Yeah I totally get the rule. I use LLMs when developing. In fact, I've been out of Claude tokens for the week since Wednesday, but I use Claude specifically for the boring, simple stuff I don't really want to do, but that Claude can. I'm simply not interested in discussing anything LLMs are able to do, it's not interesting. It makes sense that a programming subreddit first and foremost discusses programming (the skill). We can go complain about Claude somewhere else if we want to.
- petterroea 6mo ago
  Following up, anecdotally, people I talk to who are excited about LLM development usually either care more about product development, or don't have programming skill enough to see how bad the software is. Nothing wrong with either, but it can get tiresome.
  - balgg 6mo ago
    > people I talk to who are excited about LLM development usually either care more about product development This is an interesting thing I've also noticed in public hobbyist forums/discussion spaces where someone who is more interested in making a "product" clashes with people who are just there to talk about the activity itself. It's unfortunate that it happens but it will self-correct over time (like /r/programming here) and the LLM enthusiasts of Reddit will find another place to discuss ways of using them.
singularity2001 6mo ago
If you use them, you should care because there is always something one can learn about things we use.

csin 6mo ago

It may not be a, in denial, hiding their heads in the sand situation. Sometimes a topic gets too popular, it drowns out all the other topics. At that point, aren't they just a glorified version of r/llm? I'll give you one personal example: The year Caitlin Clark was drafted to the wnba. r/wnba went from a subreddit of 9000, to eventually 200k subs. We were bombarded with CC posts every hour. - Some of it was trolls staging a race war (this was during US elections). - Some of it was genuine CC fans, who wanted to talk about CC. - Some of it was bball nerds, who you know... wanted to talk about a bball player in a bball forum (regardless of who that bball player happens to be). So what happened was, at any given day, 80% of the front page was CC content. At that point, we might as well have been r/caitlinclark. So the mods did something drastic and controversial. They banned all "low effort" CC content. WTF does "low effort" mean? It pretty much meant 99% of CC posts got removed. The forum went back to something that resembled a bball forum. That talked about other players. And other teams. Not just Caitlin Clark.

vanrohan 6mo ago

I know LLM generated code comes with it's own challenges, but the absolutists are definitely clinging to a time that has passed. I saw a recent discussion on Immich where a maintainer flatout denied a PR saying "That diff looks LLM-generated to me; is that indeed the case? If so, we'd prefer not to receive a PR for it" The PR was from a professional software engineer, who worked weeks of his free time on a big feature. Well structured + tested. Dismissed just because AI was used. https://github.com/immich-app/immich/discussions/23745#discussioncomment-15987564 https://github.com/immich-app/immich/discussions/23745#discu...

59nadir 6mo ago
"Well structured + tested". Who would know? The diff is almost 200k changed lines. Good on them for saying no to this nonsense. There's a good chance the actual needed implementation is less than 20k lines (I've found that LLM bloat grows exponentially), but even that's a stretch to review and accept wholesale.
- Deeds67 6mo ago
  I'm the person working on that fork. Yes, it has now diverged 200k+ lines, but half of that is specs, research and documentation and includes a month worth of work. The comment in question was a small feature of about 1.5k lines changed and it was solidly tested.
  - 59nadir 6mo ago
    Eh, fair enough. 1.5k is reasonable. Have you tried just writing it yourself instead? It's likely it'll be less than 1k lines and you should have no problems writing an implementation yourself if you understand the structure of the LLM version.
    - Deeds67 6mo ago
      Why would I write it myself? I use Claude code 12 hours a day and I'm really confident with want I'm able to build with it. I use it at work with incredible results. Spec driven development with harnessing is super powerful, I'll never be writing large features hy hand again. Look at what I'm able to achieve in my free time after work https://opennoodle.de https://opennoodle.de Would've never had the time without my army of agents

minebreaker 6mo ago

> The fact that the people running r/progamming don't know not to wait until April 2 to publish this tells me that they don't have real-world experience in shipping software in a business environment. I can't tell this is a joke or not. Do people really care? Or maybe the U.S. thing? At least in my country nobody cares....

austin-cheney 6mo ago

This seems to be a matter of industry and a perspective, like saying everyone loves chocolate. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_populum https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_populum I have no reason to believe AI is used as much or as widely as you claim. In my industry AI is fully available and was almost forced on us, and yet nobody is using it. The process of using AI and then scrutinizing the output is just more work than doing it manually. The most I encounter AI is when running job interviews and watching candidates read AI generated answers off a screen. My industry also tends to skew much older than where I came from previously writing JavaScript full time. We are also fully remote with lots of status meetings. If I were less confident in my ability to communicate in writing maybe I would be more inclined to use AI. I also don’t really envision AI accomplishing my multitude of daily managerial and administrative assignments that I have in addition to agile stories and writing code. Comparatively, writing code is the trivial part.

ModernMech 6mo ago

lol yeah the people running the programming subreddit don't understand social context, who could have guessed?

tarsinge 6mo ago

> We are SO past the point of software being developed without LLMs at _all_ That's exactly why I've given up on programming, development or career subreddits. There are a lot of interesting software engineering challenges opening up, but instead of discussing it like professionals it all gets drowned in a big negative mixture of rants against the financial AI bubble, companies using AI as an excuse to lay off, and a general antiwork vibe. All these subreddits have become feel good/bad echo chambers for angry teens and students with no real world professional experience.

AlexeyBelov 6mo ago
So you really don't understand why people with real professional experience might be anxious now, and why there is an antiwork vibe? It's not just junior devs.
- tarsinge 6mo ago
  I understand why they might be anxious, but my point is it’s unrelated to the technology itself. Imagine people denying the internet works in 2000 because of the Dotcom bubble. Same with layoffs, they are not really due to AI (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2026_United_States_corporate_mass_layoffs https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2026_United_States_corporate_m...), it’s a political discussion. And the antiwork vibe is not new, I have strong political convictions on how we should more equally redistribute capital gains so that even if AI was able to replace software engineers it would not be an issue but again that is political. LLMs tooling brings a lot to senior devs. I have 15 YOE, I own a small agency, we are shipping faster, with less bugs, and believe it or not we are hiring, because we are able to take more work and grow, as it is logical without the political issues plaguing the US in particular. The market is already adjusting, hence why to me we are way past the point of developing professionally without LLMs. So no I don’t get why the political topics are not discussed elsewhere and the irrational denial of the technology because of said political issues.

estimator7292 6mo ago

If you can possibly believe it, there are millions of programmers who have never and will never touch <your favorite tool> Python, cmake, bash, perl, every conceivable tool or language, there's millions of people in the industry who will never touch them. This might be a wild concept, so make sure you're sitting down: the field of software engineering is unfathomably larger than your personal, extremely narrow, viewpoint.