7 ms·

A better version for shade and city beautification is to force trees around/within the parking lot.

by eclipticplane 6mo ago

yearolinuxdsktp 6mo ago
Tree shade means bird poop danger.
- ProllyInfamous 6mo ago
  I recently built a 400sqft porch on my semi-urban duplex. Two birdnests have set up shop, both in my rafters (one on CCTV). My ceilinghooked bicycle will be decommissioned for this summer's nesters. Unfortunately, being the only porch/shade: the cats are also prowling... figuring out the rooftop connections. #PoopPorch2026
- zzzoom 6mo ago
  Imagine considering some bird poop staining the paint dangerous instead of the air pollution that's slowly killing you.
  - XorNot 6mo ago
    [flagged]
    - defrost 6mo ago
      If gasoline engines burned their fuel as efficiently as possible, they would produce three by-products: water vapor (H2O), carbon dioxide (CO2) and nitrogen (N2). Unfortunately, engines do not run perfectly, and as a result, they also produce three by-products commonly referred to as the "terrible trio" of automotive pollutants. This trio includes the following: * Carbon monoxide (CO) – An odorless, tasteless, poisonous gas, carbon monoxide can cause a variety of health problems and even death. Many urban areas experience critically high levels of carbon monoxide, especially during the cold winter months when engines take longer to warm up and run cleanly * Unburned hydrocarbons (HC) – Responsible for causing a variety of respiratory problems, unburned hydrocarbons can also cause crop damage and promote the formation of smog * Oxides of nitrogen (NOX) – Like unburned hydrocarbons, oxides of nitrogen cause respiratory problems and promote the formation of smog * https://www.walkerexhaust.com/support/exhaust-101/exhaust-gases-101.html https://www.walkerexhaust.com/support/exhaust-101/exhaust-ga...
    - ceejayoz 6mo ago
      Take a nice big sniff. CO2 and water are odorless.
    - kulahan 6mo ago
      Have you ever seen an inversion? It’s crazy to imagine anyone who has, to end up thinking “maybe that shit-brown cloud stuck over the city is fine”.
      - wybiral 6mo ago
        Currently in Korea where the AQI is close to 200. Can confirm. Granted most of that is probably coal power plants and stuff but... All the more reason for more solar.
Kodiack 6mo ago
I love seeing trees in more places, but for parking lots in particular they do have some downsides compared to solar panels. They often require more space; they attract birds that that poo on vehicles; and there’s a higher risk of collateral damage during windstorms. Not to mention that solar panels directly produce electricity, of course. We absolutely should see more trees in many cities, but they introduce their own challenges in parking lots, especially if they’re placed retroactively.
- SecretDreams 6mo ago
  > they attract birds that that poo on vehicles The city can simply introduce lizards to manage to bird issue.
  - rglullis 6mo ago
    But then what are they going to do with the Gorillas? Are winters in Korea that cold?
    - SecretDreams 6mo ago
      Nighttime temps of -10c, I think we've got this locked! If not, send the saja boys after them.
      - aaronbrethorst 6mo ago
        Yes, but then who hunts the Huntr/x?
- adrianN 6mo ago
  If you don’t want trees near parking cars that essentially prevents trees in cities, since cities are practically one big parking lot.
- markerz 6mo ago
  > they attract birds that that poo on vehicles I think this is a tree density problem. Most cities have a small number of trees, and they’re almost always over cars. These are trees that line streets and parking lots. Without trees, birds just have telephone poles and wires, which are also over the cars. In San Francisco, we have a lot of trees on most of our streets, and many parks small and big, all full of trees. This means birds spread themselves out everywhere, not just over cars. I think the true barrier to getting more trees is that individuals tend not to want to pay for and maintain trees. This includes caring for the tree, trimming it when it gets bigger, and cleaning the pollen, leaves, fruits, and branches that fall.
jltsiren 6mo ago
Trees can cause a lot of trouble if you don't give them enough space to grow. "Enough space" depends on the kind of the tree, but it's typically similar to a parking space. You can mandate trees, but then you'll get less parking.
- maest 6mo ago
  > You can mandate trees, but then you'll get less parking. This implies we want to maximise car parking spaces in a city, when, I think, you'd want to maximise enjoyment of the city.
fouc 6mo ago
A couple other comments warned of bird poop danger. But the smart entrepreneur will add a drive thru car wash next to the parking lot.
gonzo41 6mo ago
People always end up petitioning for them to be cutdown because tree litter inevitably falls on cars. The best solution for cars is dense multistory parking.
- kijin 6mo ago
  Dense multistory parking underground. In South Korea, you usually don't see parking lots the size of several football fields like in the U.S., even around venues that generally attract a lot of cars, even in suburban areas. Instead, there are several stories of parking lots under every large building. Above-ground space is simply too valuable to waste on parking. Unfortunately, you can't install solar panels underground.
  - ErroneousBosh 6mo ago
    > Dense multistory parking underground. I sometimes forget there are parts of the world where you can go more than about a metre down without breaking out the Kango hammer.
    - kijin 6mo ago
      Large parts of Seoul actually sit on very hard rock -- granite and gneiss from the Mesozoic era. But if the only alternative to blasting the bedrock is to pay through your nose for prime real estate, blast the bedrock you will.
dialogbox 6mo ago
That's not possible in most of the parking lots of South Korea. It's extremely dense and no space for big enough trees to shade cars.
Mawr 6mo ago
An even better version is to do away with the parking lot part and just have the trees.
- sulplisetalk 6mo ago
  Meowr! /s
- blitzar 6mo ago
  Touch a parking lot doesn't have the same ring to it.
- drfloyd51 6mo ago
  Then how do show owners eat and pay their employees when no customers arrive because parking downtown is such a chore.
jmward01 6mo ago
More trees often means less density which leads to worse cities. There is a place for trees, but 'more is better' is not true, especially around a parking lot which has already dropped the density massively. A parking lot is a city dead zone. Trees next to that will just expand that dead zone. It is like in the US where there are ornamental 'parks' at huge intersections. Nobody goes there. They didn't help. Same with parks around government buildings. SF is a great example of wasted space due to this. Generally, you need to minimize parking areas massively and then pack as much city next to them as possible to make up for the services they robbed. In the places where you actually do have exceptionally dense city then you can think about patches of green strategically placed. Getting a diverse, ecosystem like, city is the right approach but there is no hard and fast rule to get there.
- gopher_space 6mo ago
  Everything south of San Francisco is either leaf-shaded or a shithole, and anyone who drives through California can see this stark discrepancy for themselves.
- jmward01 6mo ago
  Is there any constructive counter to my arguments? It is a great area to discuss. We often think 'if a little is good then a lot is better' but clearly that isn't the case for basically every resource. Take the 'put trees everywhere' concept to the extreme and you have a forest, not a city. I am 100% in favor of putting trees and parks in a lot of city spaces, so long as it encourages the city and doesn't create or expand city dead zones. People should be using that green space regularly. Not their cars and the more infrastructure dedicated to cars and car support the less there is for people and people support. Trees in parking lots is car support, not people support. I have never once in my life wanted to drive to a parking lot for the trees in it and rarely want to take mass transit or walk to a parking lot next to a park since I would rather a park that has great restaurants and other services near it, not a bunch of concrete for cars. You have to minimize the impact of a parking lot quickly to get use out of it. Expanding its footprint with trees isn't doing that, it is actively making things worse.
ErroneousBosh 6mo ago
Why not both?
- aziaziazi 6mo ago
  They both are in competition for surface exposed to the sun. The mall’s parking lot near my place used to have trees. When they installed the solar panel shaders last year they cut down all of them.
  - ErroneousBosh 6mo ago
    I'm kind of struggling with the physics of this. The solar panels go over the parking spaces, like a kind of a bridge, with supports at the sides. There's a lot of space in between. If the trees were in the same space as the panels, they'd be in the midddle of the parking space. What you'd have then is not a car park, but just a plain ordinary park.
    - troupo 6mo ago
      > If the trees were in the same space as the panels, they'd be in the midddle of the parking space. What you'd have then is not a car park, but just a plain ordinary park. Sigh No, it's not. You can, and you should have trees in the middle of parking lots. Examples (and these are not even good examples): - https://maps.app.goo.gl/J4Ug8KyFcg8B481z5 https://maps.app.goo.gl/J4Ug8KyFcg8B481z5 - https://maps.app.goo.gl/Dm2faVYNbeWkivNK6 https://maps.app.goo.gl/Dm2faVYNbeWkivNK6 - https://maps.app.goo.gl/7DEYPKQFX8cNPD8n8 https://maps.app.goo.gl/7DEYPKQFX8cNPD8n8
    - aziaziazi 6mo ago
      I’m not sure to understand the design you’re talking about. The one I usually see have big supports each ~10/20 parking spot and the roof cover the spots but also overhang them by a few meters. Almost all space is exploited and you basically can’t see the sun anymore, which is the intent I suppose.
      - 6mo ago

A better version for shade and city beautification is to force trees around/within the parking lot.

yearolinuxdsktp 6mo ago

Tree shade means bird poop danger.

ProllyInfamous 6mo ago
I recently built a 400sqft porch on my semi-urban duplex. Two birdnests have set up shop, both in my rafters (one on CCTV). My ceilinghooked bicycle will be decommissioned for this summer's nesters. Unfortunately, being the only porch/shade: the cats are also prowling... figuring out the rooftop connections. #PoopPorch2026
zzzoom 6mo ago
Imagine considering some bird poop staining the paint dangerous instead of the air pollution that's slowly killing you.
- XorNot 6mo ago
  [flagged]
  - defrost 6mo ago
    If gasoline engines burned their fuel as efficiently as possible, they would produce three by-products: water vapor (H2O), carbon dioxide (CO2) and nitrogen (N2). Unfortunately, engines do not run perfectly, and as a result, they also produce three by-products commonly referred to as the "terrible trio" of automotive pollutants. This trio includes the following: * Carbon monoxide (CO) – An odorless, tasteless, poisonous gas, carbon monoxide can cause a variety of health problems and even death. Many urban areas experience critically high levels of carbon monoxide, especially during the cold winter months when engines take longer to warm up and run cleanly * Unburned hydrocarbons (HC) – Responsible for causing a variety of respiratory problems, unburned hydrocarbons can also cause crop damage and promote the formation of smog * Oxides of nitrogen (NOX) – Like unburned hydrocarbons, oxides of nitrogen cause respiratory problems and promote the formation of smog * https://www.walkerexhaust.com/support/exhaust-101/exhaust-gases-101.html https://www.walkerexhaust.com/support/exhaust-101/exhaust-ga...
  - ceejayoz 6mo ago
    Take a nice big sniff. CO2 and water are odorless.
  - kulahan 6mo ago
    Have you ever seen an inversion? It’s crazy to imagine anyone who has, to end up thinking “maybe that shit-brown cloud stuck over the city is fine”.
    - wybiral 6mo ago
      Currently in Korea where the AQI is close to 200. Can confirm. Granted most of that is probably coal power plants and stuff but... All the more reason for more solar.

Kodiack 6mo ago

I love seeing trees in more places, but for parking lots in particular they do have some downsides compared to solar panels. They often require more space; they attract birds that that poo on vehicles; and there’s a higher risk of collateral damage during windstorms. Not to mention that solar panels directly produce electricity, of course. We absolutely should see more trees in many cities, but they introduce their own challenges in parking lots, especially if they’re placed retroactively.

SecretDreams 6mo ago
> they attract birds that that poo on vehicles The city can simply introduce lizards to manage to bird issue.
- rglullis 6mo ago
  But then what are they going to do with the Gorillas? Are winters in Korea that cold?
  - SecretDreams 6mo ago
    Nighttime temps of -10c, I think we've got this locked! If not, send the saja boys after them.
    - aaronbrethorst 6mo ago
      Yes, but then who hunts the Huntr/x?
adrianN 6mo ago
If you don’t want trees near parking cars that essentially prevents trees in cities, since cities are practically one big parking lot.
markerz 6mo ago
> they attract birds that that poo on vehicles I think this is a tree density problem. Most cities have a small number of trees, and they’re almost always over cars. These are trees that line streets and parking lots. Without trees, birds just have telephone poles and wires, which are also over the cars. In San Francisco, we have a lot of trees on most of our streets, and many parks small and big, all full of trees. This means birds spread themselves out everywhere, not just over cars. I think the true barrier to getting more trees is that individuals tend not to want to pay for and maintain trees. This includes caring for the tree, trimming it when it gets bigger, and cleaning the pollen, leaves, fruits, and branches that fall.

jltsiren 6mo ago

Trees can cause a lot of trouble if you don't give them enough space to grow. "Enough space" depends on the kind of the tree, but it's typically similar to a parking space. You can mandate trees, but then you'll get less parking.

maest 6mo ago
> You can mandate trees, but then you'll get less parking. This implies we want to maximise car parking spaces in a city, when, I think, you'd want to maximise enjoyment of the city.

fouc 6mo ago

A couple other comments warned of bird poop danger. But the smart entrepreneur will add a drive thru car wash next to the parking lot.

gonzo41 6mo ago

People always end up petitioning for them to be cutdown because tree litter inevitably falls on cars. The best solution for cars is dense multistory parking.

kijin 6mo ago
Dense multistory parking underground. In South Korea, you usually don't see parking lots the size of several football fields like in the U.S., even around venues that generally attract a lot of cars, even in suburban areas. Instead, there are several stories of parking lots under every large building. Above-ground space is simply too valuable to waste on parking. Unfortunately, you can't install solar panels underground.
- ErroneousBosh 6mo ago
  > Dense multistory parking underground. I sometimes forget there are parts of the world where you can go more than about a metre down without breaking out the Kango hammer.
  - kijin 6mo ago
    Large parts of Seoul actually sit on very hard rock -- granite and gneiss from the Mesozoic era. But if the only alternative to blasting the bedrock is to pay through your nose for prime real estate, blast the bedrock you will.

dialogbox 6mo ago

That's not possible in most of the parking lots of South Korea. It's extremely dense and no space for big enough trees to shade cars.

Mawr 6mo ago

An even better version is to do away with the parking lot part and just have the trees.

sulplisetalk 6mo ago
Meowr! /s
blitzar 6mo ago
Touch a parking lot doesn't have the same ring to it.
drfloyd51 6mo ago
Then how do show owners eat and pay their employees when no customers arrive because parking downtown is such a chore.

jmward01 6mo ago

More trees often means less density which leads to worse cities. There is a place for trees, but 'more is better' is not true, especially around a parking lot which has already dropped the density massively. A parking lot is a city dead zone. Trees next to that will just expand that dead zone. It is like in the US where there are ornamental 'parks' at huge intersections. Nobody goes there. They didn't help. Same with parks around government buildings. SF is a great example of wasted space due to this. Generally, you need to minimize parking areas massively and then pack as much city next to them as possible to make up for the services they robbed. In the places where you actually do have exceptionally dense city then you can think about patches of green strategically placed. Getting a diverse, ecosystem like, city is the right approach but there is no hard and fast rule to get there.

gopher_space 6mo ago
Everything south of San Francisco is either leaf-shaded or a shithole, and anyone who drives through California can see this stark discrepancy for themselves.
jmward01 6mo ago
Is there any constructive counter to my arguments? It is a great area to discuss. We often think 'if a little is good then a lot is better' but clearly that isn't the case for basically every resource. Take the 'put trees everywhere' concept to the extreme and you have a forest, not a city. I am 100% in favor of putting trees and parks in a lot of city spaces, so long as it encourages the city and doesn't create or expand city dead zones. People should be using that green space regularly. Not their cars and the more infrastructure dedicated to cars and car support the less there is for people and people support. Trees in parking lots is car support, not people support. I have never once in my life wanted to drive to a parking lot for the trees in it and rarely want to take mass transit or walk to a parking lot next to a park since I would rather a park that has great restaurants and other services near it, not a bunch of concrete for cars. You have to minimize the impact of a parking lot quickly to get use out of it. Expanding its footprint with trees isn't doing that, it is actively making things worse.

ErroneousBosh 6mo ago

Why not both?

aziaziazi 6mo ago
They both are in competition for surface exposed to the sun. The mall’s parking lot near my place used to have trees. When they installed the solar panel shaders last year they cut down all of them.
- ErroneousBosh 6mo ago
  I'm kind of struggling with the physics of this. The solar panels go over the parking spaces, like a kind of a bridge, with supports at the sides. There's a lot of space in between. If the trees were in the same space as the panels, they'd be in the midddle of the parking space. What you'd have then is not a car park, but just a plain ordinary park.
  - troupo 6mo ago
    > If the trees were in the same space as the panels, they'd be in the midddle of the parking space. What you'd have then is not a car park, but just a plain ordinary park. Sigh No, it's not. You can, and you should have trees in the middle of parking lots. Examples (and these are not even good examples): - https://maps.app.goo.gl/J4Ug8KyFcg8B481z5 https://maps.app.goo.gl/J4Ug8KyFcg8B481z5 - https://maps.app.goo.gl/Dm2faVYNbeWkivNK6 https://maps.app.goo.gl/Dm2faVYNbeWkivNK6 - https://maps.app.goo.gl/7DEYPKQFX8cNPD8n8 https://maps.app.goo.gl/7DEYPKQFX8cNPD8n8
  - aziaziazi 6mo ago
    I’m not sure to understand the design you’re talking about. The one I usually see have big supports each ~10/20 parking spot and the roof cover the spots but also overhang them by a few meters. Almost all space is exploited and you basically can’t see the sun anymore, which is the intent I suppose.
    - 6mo ago