5 ms·

Have you considered that due to their education and research those people may know more on the subject than you do? Regret rates for transition remain notoriou

by Ralfp 6mo ago

Have you considered that due to their education and research those people may know more on the subject than you do? Regret rates for transition remain notoriously low (within 2%) with main reasons for regret stated to be transitioning too late or environmental lack of acceptance or support. Besides, despite some orgs claiming there is a "transgender trend", we are just not seeing this in the data.

AdrianB1 6mo ago
That sounds like appeal to authority, it is classified as a fallacy.
- Ralfp 6mo ago
  Why is it okay for OP to question authority in the subject matter while me pointing out they research it more isn't? I have also pointed out that regret rates for transition are within 2%.
- dekhn 6mo ago
  it's only a fallacy in purely logical arguments. Appeal to authority makes sense in medical, scientific, engineering, and other contexts when the arguments necessarily depend on ambiguous data and subjective conclusions.
ipaddr 6mo ago
It's hard to impossible to go back. But the suicide rate is high.
- Ralfp 6mo ago
  It is high because primarily a minority stress of being a transgender person in unaccepting environment: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2666560325001082 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S266656032...
  - ipaddr 6mo ago
    After reading the above I don't believe they concluded stress of living in a non-accepting world is the primary reason. 30% think about killing themselves and 4%+ try each year is shocking. I think whatever side of the debate you are on we can agree things aren't working out for too many people who go through this process. If this was a drug or vaccine or hair shampoo it would have been pulled off the market.
    - dpark 6mo ago
      > people who go through this process Through what process? This was a study about trans and nonbinary people, not specifically about people who have “transitioned” I would imagine the rate of depression and similar disorders in trans people is extremely high. To be so unsatisfied with one’s own body that you consider (or go through) major treatment and surgery to change something so fundamental.
salemh 6mo ago
[flagged]
- dpd_dpd 6mo ago
  [flagged]
  - pnexk 6mo ago
    You created this account exclusively to articulate transphobic misinformation?
    - dpd_dpd 6mo ago
      What misinformation?
  - Ralfp 6mo ago
    Media research points to transgender topic being spun primarily by traditional media and social media as a political wedge issue to mobilize right-leaning voters, akin to abortion rights before: https://www.nytimes.com/2023/04/16/us/politics/transgender-conservative-campaign.html https://www.nytimes.com/2023/04/16/us/politics/transgender-c... https://pursuit.unimelb.edu.au/articles/Anti-trans-attitudes-have-existed-for-years-but-organised-disinformation-campaigns-are-increasingly-driving-them https://pursuit.unimelb.edu.au/articles/Anti-trans-attitudes... https://www.mediamatters.org/facebook/right-dominating-facebook-engagement-content-about-trans-issues https://www.mediamatters.org/facebook/right-dominating-faceb...
- Ralfp 6mo ago
  In 2017 Johns Hopkins Hospital has reopened its transgender care clinic as the Johns Hopkins Center for Transgender and Gender Expansive Health. 2022 research into Hospital's archives found the decision to cease operation in 1979 was political, not evidence based: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36191317/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36191317/ > *70%-80% of children who expressed transgender feelings, overtime, lost those feelings. This number most likely comes from a study that classified girls as transgender based on behaviors like preference to wear their hair short of wear pants instead of dresses or skirt: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21216800/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21216800/ Those children did not self-identify as transgender and further more, research could not contact 41% of them for the follow up: https://www.huffpost.com/entry/the-end-of-the-desistance_b_8903690 https://www.huffpost.com/entry/the-end-of-the-desistance_b_8...
appreciatorBus 6mo ago
> despite some orgs claiming there is a "transgender trend", we are just not seeing this in the data.' Rapid-onset gender dysphoria is a well documented phenomenon. https://www.jahonline.org/article/S1054-139X(16)30765-0/abstract https://www.jahonline.org/article/S1054-139X(16)30765-0/abst... https://statsforgender.org/since-the-turn-of-the-millennium-there-has-been-a-twenty-fold-rise-in-the-number-of-young-people-seeking-medical-transition-cross-sex-hormones-and-surgeries/ https://statsforgender.org/since-the-turn-of-the-millennium-...
- Ralfp 6mo ago
  It is not. Lisa Littmans research behind „rapid onset gender dysphoria” is a survey amongst parents recruited on three anti-trans internet sites and communities: https://psychcentral.com/lib/there-is-no-evidence-that-rapid-onset-gender-dysphoria-exists https://psychcentral.com/lib/there-is-no-evidence-that-rapid... The study was based on 256 responses to an online survey of parents recruited from these three websites https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rapid-onset_gender_dysphoria_controversy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rapid-onset_gender_dysphoria_c... That by itself means its heavily biased research on a weak sample. „Stats for Gender” site is ran by Genspect, which is also a biased source on the subject: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genspect https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genspect
  - appreciatorBus 6mo ago
    > Genspect, which is also a biased source on the subject: Organization that supports position <x> supports position <x>. If Genspect can be discarded as being a biased source, then so can WPATH and every other org supporting gender ideology. Given the fraught nature of the debate, Wikipedia seems like a poor source for determining the bias of players in the debate - the most passionate debaters have plenty of time to just edit Wikipedia.
    - Ralfp 6mo ago
      Can you explain what „gender ideology” is supposed to mean? The primary issue with Genspect is poor scientific rigour applied to their publications, as I have shown above. Pretty much „if it fits our platform, we will spread it”.

by Ralfp 6mo ago

AdrianB1 6mo ago

That sounds like appeal to authority, it is classified as a fallacy.

Ralfp 6mo ago
Why is it okay for OP to question authority in the subject matter while me pointing out they research it more isn't? I have also pointed out that regret rates for transition are within 2%.
dekhn 6mo ago
it's only a fallacy in purely logical arguments. Appeal to authority makes sense in medical, scientific, engineering, and other contexts when the arguments necessarily depend on ambiguous data and subjective conclusions.

ipaddr 6mo ago

It's hard to impossible to go back. But the suicide rate is high.

Ralfp 6mo ago
It is high because primarily a minority stress of being a transgender person in unaccepting environment: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2666560325001082 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S266656032...
- ipaddr 6mo ago
  After reading the above I don't believe they concluded stress of living in a non-accepting world is the primary reason. 30% think about killing themselves and 4%+ try each year is shocking. I think whatever side of the debate you are on we can agree things aren't working out for too many people who go through this process. If this was a drug or vaccine or hair shampoo it would have been pulled off the market.
  - dpark 6mo ago
    > people who go through this process Through what process? This was a study about trans and nonbinary people, not specifically about people who have “transitioned” I would imagine the rate of depression and similar disorders in trans people is extremely high. To be so unsatisfied with one’s own body that you consider (or go through) major treatment and surgery to change something so fundamental.

salemh 6mo ago

[flagged]

dpd_dpd 6mo ago
[flagged]
- pnexk 6mo ago
  You created this account exclusively to articulate transphobic misinformation?
  - dpd_dpd 6mo ago
    What misinformation?
- Ralfp 6mo ago
  Media research points to transgender topic being spun primarily by traditional media and social media as a political wedge issue to mobilize right-leaning voters, akin to abortion rights before: https://www.nytimes.com/2023/04/16/us/politics/transgender-conservative-campaign.html https://www.nytimes.com/2023/04/16/us/politics/transgender-c... https://pursuit.unimelb.edu.au/articles/Anti-trans-attitudes-have-existed-for-years-but-organised-disinformation-campaigns-are-increasingly-driving-them https://pursuit.unimelb.edu.au/articles/Anti-trans-attitudes... https://www.mediamatters.org/facebook/right-dominating-facebook-engagement-content-about-trans-issues https://www.mediamatters.org/facebook/right-dominating-faceb...
Ralfp 6mo ago
In 2017 Johns Hopkins Hospital has reopened its transgender care clinic as the Johns Hopkins Center for Transgender and Gender Expansive Health. 2022 research into Hospital's archives found the decision to cease operation in 1979 was political, not evidence based: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36191317/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36191317/ > *70%-80% of children who expressed transgender feelings, overtime, lost those feelings. This number most likely comes from a study that classified girls as transgender based on behaviors like preference to wear their hair short of wear pants instead of dresses or skirt: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21216800/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21216800/ Those children did not self-identify as transgender and further more, research could not contact 41% of them for the follow up: https://www.huffpost.com/entry/the-end-of-the-desistance_b_8903690 https://www.huffpost.com/entry/the-end-of-the-desistance_b_8...

appreciatorBus 6mo ago

> despite some orgs claiming there is a "transgender trend", we are just not seeing this in the data.' Rapid-onset gender dysphoria is a well documented phenomenon. https://www.jahonline.org/article/S1054-139X(16)30765-0/abstract https://www.jahonline.org/article/S1054-139X(16)30765-0/abst... https://statsforgender.org/since-the-turn-of-the-millennium-there-has-been-a-twenty-fold-rise-in-the-number-of-young-people-seeking-medical-transition-cross-sex-hormones-and-surgeries/ https://statsforgender.org/since-the-turn-of-the-millennium-...

Ralfp 6mo ago
It is not. Lisa Littmans research behind „rapid onset gender dysphoria” is a survey amongst parents recruited on three anti-trans internet sites and communities: https://psychcentral.com/lib/there-is-no-evidence-that-rapid-onset-gender-dysphoria-exists https://psychcentral.com/lib/there-is-no-evidence-that-rapid... The study was based on 256 responses to an online survey of parents recruited from these three websites https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rapid-onset_gender_dysphoria_controversy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rapid-onset_gender_dysphoria_c... That by itself means its heavily biased research on a weak sample. „Stats for Gender” site is ran by Genspect, which is also a biased source on the subject: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genspect https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genspect
- appreciatorBus 6mo ago
  > Genspect, which is also a biased source on the subject: Organization that supports position <x> supports position <x>. If Genspect can be discarded as being a biased source, then so can WPATH and every other org supporting gender ideology. Given the fraught nature of the debate, Wikipedia seems like a poor source for determining the bias of players in the debate - the most passionate debaters have plenty of time to just edit Wikipedia.
  - Ralfp 6mo ago
    Can you explain what „gender ideology” is supposed to mean? The primary issue with Genspect is poor scientific rigour applied to their publications, as I have shown above. Pretty much „if it fits our platform, we will spread it”.