6 ms·

It's fun, leading edge Linux distros (e.g. GNOME OS) are actually currently removing `sudo` completely in favour of `run0` from systemd, which fixes this "prope

by pojntfx 6mo ago

It's fun, leading edge Linux distros (e.g. GNOME OS) are actually currently removing `sudo` completely in favour of `run0` from systemd, which fixes this "properly" by using Polkit & transient systemd units instead of setuid binaries like sudo. You get a UAC-style prompt, can even auth with your fingerprint just like on other modern OSes. Instead of doing this, Ubuntu is just using a Rust rewrite of sudo. Some things really never change.

silisili 6mo ago
Ubuntu truly are masters of going all in on being different in a worse way, only to about face soon thereafter. You'd think by now they'd have learned, but apparently not.
- necovek 6mo ago
  Courage to be different is an open door to creativity. Yes, it means going in a wrong direction sometimes as well: that's why it takes courage — success ain't guaranteed and you might be mocked or ridiculed when you fail. Still, Ubuntu got from zero to most-used Linux distribution on desktops and servers with much smaller investment than the incumbents who are sometimes only following (like Red Hat). So perhaps they also did a few things right? (This discussion is rooted in one of those decisions too: Ubuntu was the first to standardize on sudo and no root account on the desktop, at least of mainstream distributions)
  - silisili 6mo ago
    Ubuntu became the most used because they were the first to really dumb down the install process. No insult intended, it was my first distro as well. If you weren't around, it was rather stark. Most others had install media that just loaded a curses based install menu, asking you about partioning. Ubuntu gave you a live environment and graphical installer, which didn't ask any hard questions... way ahead of their time. Nobody picked Ubuntu because of Mir, or Compiz, or Upstart(or snaps, while we're on the topic). They were obvious errors. That it's popular doesn't negate that fact.
    - dizhn 6mo ago
      The free CDs they sent worldwide to whoever asked was huge too.
    - prmoustache 6mo ago
      > Ubuntu became the most used because they were the first to really dumb down the install process. That is an urban myth relayed by people who weren't even using Ubuntu in its early days. Other distros were as easy to install as Ubuntu even before Ubuntu was founded. Besides Ubuntu was using the then experimental debian installer you could already use with a regular debian. They just shipped it on the default CD image earlier than debian did. What they did to be on top was using Mark shuttleworth's money to ship an insane amount of free install CDs to anyone asking for them which meant that for a small period of time, when most people were on dial up internet ISDN and shitty ADSL, Ubuntu went suddently to be the number one distro installed. A friend, family member or coworker was curious about Linux? You'd hand him one of the fifty Ubuntu CDs you had lying around. I know I was one of those handing out CDs left and right. It was a time when to get an install CD without broadband you'd have to buy a magazine, and you didn't get to choose which distro was featured each month, a book or a boxset (not available everywhere). Later all those many early ubuntu adopters became ubuntu evangelists. But bar a few exceptions like slackware, debian with the default vanilla installer or gentoo, there was nothing particular about the ubuntu install experience compared to other distros. Mandrake, Corel Linux ans Xandrows for example provided super easy install experience even before Ubuntu became a thing.
      - necovek 6mo ago
        While Ubuntu did build on Debian testing/unstable, they did invest in building the GUI on top of everything, paying salaries for a few Debian developers. With a very slim team (I am guessing 15-30 in the first couple of years), they picked Python as the go to language and invested heavily in development tooling making it possible for them to innovate and pivot quickly. Yes, they grew to a mid size company of 500-1000 over time, but also expanded into many different areas. Perhaps one can also make a case for them effectively starting and killing a number of projects akin to Google, except they usually made them open source, and some live on as volunteer efforts (eg. ubuntu touch).
- egorfine 6mo ago
  > You'd think by now they'd have learned, but apparently not. No. Suffering is the crucial part of virtue signaling, so bugs in slop rewrites are a feature, not a bug.
gzread 6mo ago
Is "GNOME OS" really a leading distro?
- LeoPanthera 6mo ago
  I think they mean "leading edge".
  - mikkupikku 6mo ago
    Losing edge.
1una 6mo ago
It's possible to auth with your fingerprint (or even a YubiKey) in sudo. It's a functionality provided by PAM, after all.
CodeCompost 6mo ago
How can you stop it asking your password every single time? I asked my LLM and it hallucinated Javascript at me.
- bblb 6mo ago
  echo "$USER ALL=(ALL) NOPASSWD:ALL" | sudo tee "/etc/sudoers.d/$USER"; sudo chmod 0600 "/etc/sudoers.d/$USER" sudo mkdir -p /etc/polkit-1/rules.d echo 'polkit.addRule(function(action, subject) { if (subject.isInGroup("sudo") || subject.isInGroup("wheel")) { return polkit.Result.YES; }});' | sudo tee /etc/polkit-1/rules.d/00-nopasswd.rules
deleted 6mo ago
[deleted]
timhh 6mo ago
You make it sound like there was a discussion where they looked at these two alternatives and chose improving sudo over using run0. Actually I just submitted a patch for this and they accepted it. I don't work for Ubuntu and I didn't even know run0 existed until now (it does sound good though; I hope they switch to that).
Elhana 6mo ago
Gnome is known for shitty UX, breaking stuff every release and refusing to fix stuff since Gnome3.
rich_sasha 6mo ago
Why is running a command as an ephemeral systemd unit better? Just curious, I don't have an opinion one way or the other. Without knowing more, creating a transient unit just to run a single shell command seems quite roundabout.

by pojntfx 6mo ago

silisili 6mo ago

Ubuntu truly are masters of going all in on being different in a worse way, only to about face soon thereafter. You'd think by now they'd have learned, but apparently not.

necovek 6mo ago
Courage to be different is an open door to creativity. Yes, it means going in a wrong direction sometimes as well: that's why it takes courage — success ain't guaranteed and you might be mocked or ridiculed when you fail. Still, Ubuntu got from zero to most-used Linux distribution on desktops and servers with much smaller investment than the incumbents who are sometimes only following (like Red Hat). So perhaps they also did a few things right? (This discussion is rooted in one of those decisions too: Ubuntu was the first to standardize on sudo and no root account on the desktop, at least of mainstream distributions)
- silisili 6mo ago
  Ubuntu became the most used because they were the first to really dumb down the install process. No insult intended, it was my first distro as well. If you weren't around, it was rather stark. Most others had install media that just loaded a curses based install menu, asking you about partioning. Ubuntu gave you a live environment and graphical installer, which didn't ask any hard questions... way ahead of their time. Nobody picked Ubuntu because of Mir, or Compiz, or Upstart(or snaps, while we're on the topic). They were obvious errors. That it's popular doesn't negate that fact.
  - dizhn 6mo ago
    The free CDs they sent worldwide to whoever asked was huge too.
  - prmoustache 6mo ago
    > Ubuntu became the most used because they were the first to really dumb down the install process. That is an urban myth relayed by people who weren't even using Ubuntu in its early days. Other distros were as easy to install as Ubuntu even before Ubuntu was founded. Besides Ubuntu was using the then experimental debian installer you could already use with a regular debian. They just shipped it on the default CD image earlier than debian did. What they did to be on top was using Mark shuttleworth's money to ship an insane amount of free install CDs to anyone asking for them which meant that for a small period of time, when most people were on dial up internet ISDN and shitty ADSL, Ubuntu went suddently to be the number one distro installed. A friend, family member or coworker was curious about Linux? You'd hand him one of the fifty Ubuntu CDs you had lying around. I know I was one of those handing out CDs left and right. It was a time when to get an install CD without broadband you'd have to buy a magazine, and you didn't get to choose which distro was featured each month, a book or a boxset (not available everywhere). Later all those many early ubuntu adopters became ubuntu evangelists. But bar a few exceptions like slackware, debian with the default vanilla installer or gentoo, there was nothing particular about the ubuntu install experience compared to other distros. Mandrake, Corel Linux ans Xandrows for example provided super easy install experience even before Ubuntu became a thing.
    - necovek 6mo ago
      While Ubuntu did build on Debian testing/unstable, they did invest in building the GUI on top of everything, paying salaries for a few Debian developers. With a very slim team (I am guessing 15-30 in the first couple of years), they picked Python as the go to language and invested heavily in development tooling making it possible for them to innovate and pivot quickly. Yes, they grew to a mid size company of 500-1000 over time, but also expanded into many different areas. Perhaps one can also make a case for them effectively starting and killing a number of projects akin to Google, except they usually made them open source, and some live on as volunteer efforts (eg. ubuntu touch).
egorfine 6mo ago
> You'd think by now they'd have learned, but apparently not. No. Suffering is the crucial part of virtue signaling, so bugs in slop rewrites are a feature, not a bug.

gzread 6mo ago

Is "GNOME OS" really a leading distro?

LeoPanthera 6mo ago
I think they mean "leading edge".
- mikkupikku 6mo ago
  Losing edge.

1una 6mo ago

It's possible to auth with your fingerprint (or even a YubiKey) in sudo. It's a functionality provided by PAM, after all.

CodeCompost 6mo ago

How can you stop it asking your password every single time? I asked my LLM and it hallucinated Javascript at me.

bblb 6mo ago
echo "$USER ALL=(ALL) NOPASSWD:ALL" | sudo tee "/etc/sudoers.d/$USER"; sudo chmod 0600 "/etc/sudoers.d/$USER" sudo mkdir -p /etc/polkit-1/rules.d echo 'polkit.addRule(function(action, subject) { if (subject.isInGroup("sudo") || subject.isInGroup("wheel")) { return polkit.Result.YES; }});' | sudo tee /etc/polkit-1/rules.d/00-nopasswd.rules

deleted 6mo ago

[deleted]

timhh 6mo ago

You make it sound like there was a discussion where they looked at these two alternatives and chose improving sudo over using run0. Actually I just submitted a patch for this and they accepted it. I don't work for Ubuntu and I didn't even know run0 existed until now (it does sound good though; I hope they switch to that).

Elhana 6mo ago

Gnome is known for shitty UX, breaking stuff every release and refusing to fix stuff since Gnome3.

rich_sasha 6mo ago

Why is running a command as an ephemeral systemd unit better? Just curious, I don't have an opinion one way or the other. Without knowing more, creating a transient unit just to run a single shell command seems quite roundabout.