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I think if you were to do an Osaka version of this, the list would be limited to maybe 4 of these (licking, chopsticks upright in rice, passing between chopstic
by cmcaleer 6mo ago
I think if you were to do an Osaka version of this, the list would be limited to maybe 4 of these (licking, chopsticks upright in rice, passing between chopsticks, and pointing esp. toward a senior would be taboo).
Whereas when I had a date with a girl from Kyoto, one of the first things that happened when we went to eat was she had to stop me from picking up my chopsticks impolitely and show me the proper way of doing it.
Suffice it to say my Osaka-learned table manners and speech patterns meant there was no second date.
- cthalupa 6mo agoIt's always wild to me when I hear about how different the culture is between Osaka and Kyoto when they're so close.
- cmcaleer 6mo agoI remember being blown away when I was in a Kyoto Familymart after a few months of living in Osaka after they handed me my fried chicken very delicately with both hands like it was a business card! I guess that’s the cultural divide that occurs when one community is fishing and trading while the other does, like, competitive perfumed calligraphy or whatever.
- Brian_K_White 6mo agoClearly they also cook and serve fried chicken.
- vpribish 6mo agocompetitive perfumed calligraphic etiquette -- of your grandfathers!
- anthk 6mo agoSimilar in Spain between Andalusia doing trades since forever across the whole Mediterranean Sea vs the inner provinces (the Castille-s) and the chilly Atlantic North regions with Celtic/Basque substrates.
- jacquesm 6mo agoI've had people living in the East of Durgerdam explain to me that people from the West of Durgerdam were a bit weird. For context: https://www.google.com/maps/place/1026+CD+Durgerdam/@52.37908,4.9940488,605m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m6!3m5!1s0x47c60edd7cf980df:0x4052e998e8001613!8m2!3d52.3780596!4d4.9903771!16zL20vMGJ3azMx?entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI2MDMxOC4xIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D https://www.google.com/maps/place/1026+CD+Durgerdam/@52.3790...
- Xixi 6mo agoI'm not sure I'd put it down entirely to Osaka versus Kyoto. My impression is that these things often have at least as much to do with upbringing, formality, and social background as with region. I don't know where you're from, so apologies if this is an unfair assumption, but in countries like the US or Australia people often seem less attuned to social class, whereas in places like the UK, France, and indeed Japan, those distinctions can carry more weight, even if they almost always go unspoken.
- markdown 6mo agoAgreed. Was always taught to never put elbows on the table, but as an adult I see people do it everywhere.
- GuestFAUniverse 6mo agoYeah, as if we still have loose table tops, like in medieval times.
- rglullis 6mo agoSeeing people fail to meet a standard does not mean that the standard does not exist.
- rkomorn 6mo agoWhen it comes to manners, I'd say seeing enough people fail to meet a standard means it's not a standard, at least.
- rglullis 6mo agoNo, that's argumentum ad populum. Mind you, I'm not saying that standards must be followed. I am just saying the same thing I tell my kids: - the standards are there, wishing they didn't exist doesn't invalidate them - the reason rules and standards came to existence might or might not be applicable to our current context, but some people will expect you to follow them regardless. - If a rule or standard seems silly to you, make your best attempt at understanding why people would still follow it. (Chesterton's fence) - You are free to not comply to some rules, but always be ready to accept the consequences of your decisions. - What your friends are doing or not doing is not reason enough for you to change your behavior or choices.
- gregjw 6mo agoI live in Osaka (only lived here a year) and it is fascinating the vibe change between Osaka and Kyoto.
- derefr 6mo agoI wonder what Ms. Kyoto would tell me to do to properly pick up my chopsticks, given that I’m left-handed, and yet it is apparently a faux pas to lay down the chopsticks pointing to the right.
- thaumasiotes 6mo agoDo you know how serious "chopsticks upright in rice" is? I had a Chinese teacher who mentioned the taboo (with regard to China, not Japan), but she also said that while people recognize that it's something you're not supposed to do, it's not taken seriously either.
- NickC25 6mo agoI do. My parents (americans) lived between HK and Taiwan for a decade before I was born, and growing up, I was fortunate enough to have my folks teach me a bit of chinese. We'd regularly go to a local Chinese restaurant where the staff would speak to me in Chinese so I could practice speaking. Seeing as some of the staff were significantly older, my dad taught me to be hyper aware of customs surrounding dining norms and etiquette. One day I accidentally left my chopsticks in the rice bowl while there was still rice in it, and the waitress (an older Chinese lady) saw it - poor lady nearly fainted. I did not make that mistake ever again. For context - it's a way of saying "death to your family" or something akin to that.
- thaumasiotes 6mo ago> I do. I don't think an elderly person who lives in a different country is actually a good guide to modern practice. Also, I was asking about Japan. I believed my Chinese teacher (in China). > For context - it's a way of saying "death to your family" or something akin to that. Nothing so specific. It is felt to resemble something you'd see at a funeral.
- nssnsjsjsjs 6mo agoCould be the Japanese version of getting a friend to "save them from the date" by calling to pretend it is an emergency.
- BrandoElFollito 6mo agoI would say you dodged a bullet. I dated many foreign girls and it was always fun to discover the cultural differences. There are similar faux-pas in France but, really, nobody with an ounce of common sense cares. You like your red wine cold as I do? Someone will maybe mention that you will be loosing some aroma znd that's all. You add sugar and ice? This is probably not a drink for you and you will get some laughs but that's all. I eat my starters after the main meal in the company restaurant, nobody cares. You are there to have pleasure, this is not West Point
- craftkiller 6mo ago> You add sugar and ice? One of my favorite alcoholic drinks is port + ice, which it sounds like the only difference here would be that wine + sugar + ice would be much weaker in terms of alcohol content.
- lloeki 6mo ago> You like your red wine cold as I do? Fun fact: "chambrer le vin" i.e getting (usually red) wine from storage temperature to "room temperature" comes from a time where said room temperature was well below 20 degC (more like 13-15 degC), not the comfortable 20+ degC that people like to enjoy these days.
- BrandoElFollito 6mo agoThanks for the reminder about our traditions. Now, I like to drink it straight from the fridge, i.e. about 6°C :)
- lloeki 6mo agoHeh, whatever works. A sommelier friend of mine says that the best way to taste wine is the one you enjoy; if you want to have a glass of chilled powerful Haut-Médoc with some delicate fish, have at it.