6 ms·

I think you're vastly underestimating the technical illiteracy most people have with computers. 99% of people buy a desktop and don't even consider what the op

I think you're vastly underestimating the technical illiteracy most people have with computers. 99% of people buy a desktop and don't even consider what the operating system is let alone think about changing it to something else. I would imagine they don't even know that a difference exists between operating systems.

theLiminator 6mo ago
HN in general always does this. I got a lot of push back when I said that in general consumers don't care at all about open source, and the majority of them probably have no clue what it even means. You can really sense the SF-centric bubble HN lives in.
- fsloth 6mo ago
  Open source is a supply chain specific issue and consumers don’t care about supply chain. Anyone with any illusions about this name quickly the top vendor for the third item in the materials itinerary of the first thing with a materials itinerary you get your hands on (for me it’s usually food. Who is the main vendor for citric acid? Or sugar. Or that red dye that causes adhd. I have no clue) General consumers could not care less about open source. It’s component. Not a product.
- guelo 6mo ago
  HN always does this, make ridiculous generalizations about the thousands of people that comment on HN.
operatingthetan 6mo ago
I try new distros all the time and not a single one of them is 'GUI native' in the sense that you can do everything without touching a terminal. Some weird stuff always happens and you need to do a bunch of research to figure out how to fix it. The settings GUIs never have parity with the config files and it shows.
- tasuki 6mo ago
  Windows is 'GUI native', yet manages to be utterly incomprehensible. I'm a technical person and family and friends know it. Whenever someone tells me "you understand computers" and wants me to help them with their Windows, having used Linux for the past 20 years, I mostly cannot get the task done. This has become better with LLMs, but Windows gets zero credit for that. What is the benefit of 'GUI native' if things are broken and people cannot fix them?
- orthoxerox 6mo ago
  Windows isn't 100% GUI native either. Tell me how to configure the IP settings of a Hyper-V virtual switch via GUI.
  - raw_anon_1111 6mo ago
    Yes because that is something most people need to do
  - NetMageSCW 6mo ago
    Tell me what percentage of Windows desktop users need to do that on a daily basis. Or even a weekly basis. Or even a monthly basis. (Or just open Hyper-V Manager, then from the Actions pane choose Virtual Switch Manager then select the virtual switch and configure it.)
- Gigachad 6mo ago
  Depends what you are doing. I have Bazzite Linux on my gaming desktop and I don’t even connect a keyboard to it, let alone open a terminal. Everything is accessible via a controller.
dingdingdang 6mo ago
This point stands to be underlined! Even the least possible friction is more than people at large are willing to deal with, it's only if the system changes are pushed from the top (rumblings in the EU block at the mo) that we'll see casual consumption of Linux in more mainstream context. Having run Linux Mint across a 50+ coworker setting from a sysadmin perspective this is entirely doable, most will not even notice as long as Chrome is in place alongside with something office-like.
jaredsohn 6mo ago
This xkcd is again relevant: https://xkcd.com/2501/ https://xkcd.com/2501/
- fsloth 6mo ago
  Don’t undersell it, it’s perfect actually.
radlad 6mo ago
Do non-tech people even buy computers anymore? I imagine you basically have tech enthusiasts, gamers, and IT at offices buying desktop computers at this point.
- gunalx 6mo ago
  True. Desktops are becoming a nishe. Casual pc use most likely has a laptop. More and more just a phone and maybe a ipad or other tablet.
  - anonymars 6mo ago
    > More and more just a phone and maybe a ipad or other tablet. And I think this is one reason why, for those of us who grew up with "computers" modern UI trends are, to quote https://idlewords.com/talks/website_obesity.htm https://idlewords.com/talks/website_obesity.htm, "like we woke up one day to find our Legos had been replaced with Duplos"
- Mesmoria 6mo ago
  One reason to buy a laptop is school/uni. After that it feels like many people move there "computing" to their phones. Time for some Internet researching...
- Gigachad 6mo ago
  I’ve never met someone who doesn’t own a computer. Every uni student owns a personal laptop. For all the marketing from Apple, the iPad still isn’t close to replacing a laptop.
  - cogman10 6mo ago
    You aren't well connected to GenZ. Especially Gen Z not going into higher education. The only computers they tend to own are phones, tablets, and maybe a game console. Heck, my millennial sister in law got her first computer because of covid. Until that point the only computers she was using was her work computer and her phone. I agree, a tablet isn't as capable as a laptop. However, a very large portion of the population doesn't need those capabilities. They just want something to watch netflix on.
colordrops 6mo ago
KDE is an experience that is not that different in quality from Windows. And if 75% of users used KDE as their desktop instead of Windows, I promise you that the rough edges would be worked out. It has nothing to do with Windows having better UX or quality.
JoelMcCracken 6mo ago
This. While I was in college, I worked for Circuit City doing tech support (the "IQ Crew", heh, later called "firedog". Memories). People would call/come in and I would try to gather information about their setup. It was extremely common to get Q/A like: Me: Who is your internet serviced provider? Them: I just click the 'e'. Translation: They were telling me they use internet explorer. Me: OK, bring in your computer and I can look at it. Them: (arrives some time later, plops their CRT monitor on the table). It was always like that. It took me a while to figure out how to ask the right questions to get the information I needed from them. TBH, this was most of the job.
- bombcar 6mo ago
  I've often thought that laptops are conspiracy by "Big Geek" to make it so they can't just bring in the monitor anymore.
  - pona-a 6mo ago
    That's iMacs.
Lammy 6mo ago
I like a lot of things about Windows and would consider myself technically literate. I also like Linux and especially FreeBSD, but Windows has Good Bones. Shame about all the spyware and the shitty modern UI though.

theLiminator 6mo ago

HN in general always does this. I got a lot of push back when I said that in general consumers don't care at all about open source, and the majority of them probably have no clue what it even means. You can really sense the SF-centric bubble HN lives in.

fsloth 6mo ago
Open source is a supply chain specific issue and consumers don’t care about supply chain. Anyone with any illusions about this name quickly the top vendor for the third item in the materials itinerary of the first thing with a materials itinerary you get your hands on (for me it’s usually food. Who is the main vendor for citric acid? Or sugar. Or that red dye that causes adhd. I have no clue) General consumers could not care less about open source. It’s component. Not a product.
guelo 6mo ago
HN always does this, make ridiculous generalizations about the thousands of people that comment on HN.

operatingthetan 6mo ago

I try new distros all the time and not a single one of them is 'GUI native' in the sense that you can do everything without touching a terminal. Some weird stuff always happens and you need to do a bunch of research to figure out how to fix it. The settings GUIs never have parity with the config files and it shows.

tasuki 6mo ago
Windows is 'GUI native', yet manages to be utterly incomprehensible. I'm a technical person and family and friends know it. Whenever someone tells me "you understand computers" and wants me to help them with their Windows, having used Linux for the past 20 years, I mostly cannot get the task done. This has become better with LLMs, but Windows gets zero credit for that. What is the benefit of 'GUI native' if things are broken and people cannot fix them?
orthoxerox 6mo ago
Windows isn't 100% GUI native either. Tell me how to configure the IP settings of a Hyper-V virtual switch via GUI.
- raw_anon_1111 6mo ago
  Yes because that is something most people need to do
- NetMageSCW 6mo ago
  Tell me what percentage of Windows desktop users need to do that on a daily basis. Or even a weekly basis. Or even a monthly basis. (Or just open Hyper-V Manager, then from the Actions pane choose Virtual Switch Manager then select the virtual switch and configure it.)
Gigachad 6mo ago
Depends what you are doing. I have Bazzite Linux on my gaming desktop and I don’t even connect a keyboard to it, let alone open a terminal. Everything is accessible via a controller.

dingdingdang 6mo ago

This point stands to be underlined! Even the least possible friction is more than people at large are willing to deal with, it's only if the system changes are pushed from the top (rumblings in the EU block at the mo) that we'll see casual consumption of Linux in more mainstream context. Having run Linux Mint across a 50+ coworker setting from a sysadmin perspective this is entirely doable, most will not even notice as long as Chrome is in place alongside with something office-like.

jaredsohn 6mo ago

This xkcd is again relevant: https://xkcd.com/2501/ https://xkcd.com/2501/

fsloth 6mo ago
Don’t undersell it, it’s perfect actually.

radlad 6mo ago

Do non-tech people even buy computers anymore? I imagine you basically have tech enthusiasts, gamers, and IT at offices buying desktop computers at this point.

gunalx 6mo ago
True. Desktops are becoming a nishe. Casual pc use most likely has a laptop. More and more just a phone and maybe a ipad or other tablet.
- anonymars 6mo ago
  > More and more just a phone and maybe a ipad or other tablet. And I think this is one reason why, for those of us who grew up with "computers" modern UI trends are, to quote https://idlewords.com/talks/website_obesity.htm https://idlewords.com/talks/website_obesity.htm, "like we woke up one day to find our Legos had been replaced with Duplos"
Mesmoria 6mo ago
One reason to buy a laptop is school/uni. After that it feels like many people move there "computing" to their phones. Time for some Internet researching...
Gigachad 6mo ago
I’ve never met someone who doesn’t own a computer. Every uni student owns a personal laptop. For all the marketing from Apple, the iPad still isn’t close to replacing a laptop.
- cogman10 6mo ago
  You aren't well connected to GenZ. Especially Gen Z not going into higher education. The only computers they tend to own are phones, tablets, and maybe a game console. Heck, my millennial sister in law got her first computer because of covid. Until that point the only computers she was using was her work computer and her phone. I agree, a tablet isn't as capable as a laptop. However, a very large portion of the population doesn't need those capabilities. They just want something to watch netflix on.

colordrops 6mo ago

KDE is an experience that is not that different in quality from Windows. And if 75% of users used KDE as their desktop instead of Windows, I promise you that the rough edges would be worked out. It has nothing to do with Windows having better UX or quality.

JoelMcCracken 6mo ago

This. While I was in college, I worked for Circuit City doing tech support (the "IQ Crew", heh, later called "firedog". Memories). People would call/come in and I would try to gather information about their setup. It was extremely common to get Q/A like: Me: Who is your internet serviced provider? Them: I just click the 'e'. Translation: They were telling me they use internet explorer. Me: OK, bring in your computer and I can look at it. Them: (arrives some time later, plops their CRT monitor on the table). It was always like that. It took me a while to figure out how to ask the right questions to get the information I needed from them. TBH, this was most of the job.

bombcar 6mo ago
I've often thought that laptops are conspiracy by "Big Geek" to make it so they can't just bring in the monitor anymore.
- pona-a 6mo ago
  That's iMacs.

Lammy 6mo ago

I like a lot of things about Windows and would consider myself technically literate. I also like Linux and especially FreeBSD, but Windows has Good Bones. Shame about all the spyware and the shitty modern UI though.