6 ms·

Why are we using cli wrappers if you're using Claude Code? I get if you need something like Codex but they released sub agents today so maybe not even that, bu

Why are we using cli wrappers if you're using Claude Code? I get if you need something like Codex but they released sub agents today so maybe not even that, but it's an unnecessary wrapper for Claude Code.

gtirloni 6mo ago
GSD and superpowers aren't CLI wrappers?
- hatmanstack 6mo ago
  It's a cli wrapper. Don't know how you could say it wasn't. edit: GSD is a cli wrapper, Superpowers not so much. Both are over-engineered for an easy problem IMHO.
  - ramoz 6mo ago
    Both are dramatically over-engineered. & That's okay. I find them to be products of an industry reconciling how to really work with AI as well as optimize workflows around it. Similar to Gastown et al. Otherwise, if you can own your own thinking, orchestrating, and steering of agents, you're in a more mature place.
    - hatmanstack 6mo ago
      I think that's fair, if they were created today I'm sure the creators would make different decisions, a penalty of getting there first.
    - mycall 6mo ago
      I also see it as fleeting as right when you have it figured out, a new model will work differently and may/may not need all their engineering layers.
  - hermanzegerman 6mo ago
    No it's not. It's using Skills and Agents and runs always inside of Claude Code, Gemini CLI etc...
    - swingboy 6mo ago
      GSD delegates a lot of the deterministic work to a JavaScript CLI. That might be what the poster is talking about.
      - gtirloni 6mo ago
        That's definitely not a CLI wrapper. But people are calling Claude Code (clearly a TUI) a CLI so :shrug: GSD is a collection of skills, commands, MCPs(?), helper scripts, etc that you use inside Claude Code (and others). If anything, Claude Code is the wrapper around those things and not the other way around. Re: helper scripts. Anyone doing extensive work in any AI-assisted platform has experienced the situation where the agent wants to update 10k files individually and it takes ages. CC is often smart enought to code a quick Python script for those changes and the GSD helper scripts help in the same way. It's just trying to save tokens. Hardly a wrapper around Claude Code.
odie5533 6mo ago
Wrappers are useful for some tasks. I use ralph loops for things that are extremely complicated and take days of work. Like reverse engineering projects or large scale migration efforts.
- hatmanstack 6mo ago
  Even with the 1 mil context windows? Can't you just keep the orchestrator going and run sub agents? Maybe the added space is too new? I also haven't tested out the context rot from 300K and up. Would love some color on it from first hand exp.
  - odie5533 6mo ago
    It's not a context issue so much as a focus issue. The agent will complete part of a task and then ask if I want it to continue. Even if I told it I want it to keep going until all tasks are complete. Using a wrapper deals with that behavior. Most projects I do take 20 minutes or less for an agent to complete and those don't need a wrapper. But for longer tasks, like hours or days, it gets distracted.
    - mrhaugan 6mo ago
      Damn, what kind of tasks are you making your agents work on that takes days???
      - odie5533 6mo ago
        Claude Code has been working 24/7 for the past 4 days on creating a private server for a dead video game. It managed to get login, chat, inventory, and a few other features working. I provided it tools like Ghidra and x64dbg and pywinauto. Progress is slow but incremental. Each day new bits work that didn't before.
roncesvalles 6mo ago
So that you can have a fresh context for every little thing. These harnesses basically marry LLMs with deterministic software logic. The harness programmatically generates the prompts and stores the output, step by step. You never want the LLM to do anything that deterministic software does better, because it inflates the context and is not guaranteed to be done accurately. This includes things like tracking progress, figuring out dependency ordering, etc.

gtirloni 6mo ago

GSD and superpowers aren't CLI wrappers?

hatmanstack 6mo ago
It's a cli wrapper. Don't know how you could say it wasn't. edit: GSD is a cli wrapper, Superpowers not so much. Both are over-engineered for an easy problem IMHO.
- ramoz 6mo ago
  Both are dramatically over-engineered. & That's okay. I find them to be products of an industry reconciling how to really work with AI as well as optimize workflows around it. Similar to Gastown et al. Otherwise, if you can own your own thinking, orchestrating, and steering of agents, you're in a more mature place.
  - hatmanstack 6mo ago
    I think that's fair, if they were created today I'm sure the creators would make different decisions, a penalty of getting there first.
  - mycall 6mo ago
    I also see it as fleeting as right when you have it figured out, a new model will work differently and may/may not need all their engineering layers.
- hermanzegerman 6mo ago
  No it's not. It's using Skills and Agents and runs always inside of Claude Code, Gemini CLI etc...
  - swingboy 6mo ago
    GSD delegates a lot of the deterministic work to a JavaScript CLI. That might be what the poster is talking about.
    - gtirloni 6mo ago
      That's definitely not a CLI wrapper. But people are calling Claude Code (clearly a TUI) a CLI so :shrug: GSD is a collection of skills, commands, MCPs(?), helper scripts, etc that you use inside Claude Code (and others). If anything, Claude Code is the wrapper around those things and not the other way around. Re: helper scripts. Anyone doing extensive work in any AI-assisted platform has experienced the situation where the agent wants to update 10k files individually and it takes ages. CC is often smart enought to code a quick Python script for those changes and the GSD helper scripts help in the same way. It's just trying to save tokens. Hardly a wrapper around Claude Code.

odie5533 6mo ago

Wrappers are useful for some tasks. I use ralph loops for things that are extremely complicated and take days of work. Like reverse engineering projects or large scale migration efforts.

hatmanstack 6mo ago
Even with the 1 mil context windows? Can't you just keep the orchestrator going and run sub agents? Maybe the added space is too new? I also haven't tested out the context rot from 300K and up. Would love some color on it from first hand exp.
- odie5533 6mo ago
  It's not a context issue so much as a focus issue. The agent will complete part of a task and then ask if I want it to continue. Even if I told it I want it to keep going until all tasks are complete. Using a wrapper deals with that behavior. Most projects I do take 20 minutes or less for an agent to complete and those don't need a wrapper. But for longer tasks, like hours or days, it gets distracted.
  - mrhaugan 6mo ago
    Damn, what kind of tasks are you making your agents work on that takes days???
    - odie5533 6mo ago
      Claude Code has been working 24/7 for the past 4 days on creating a private server for a dead video game. It managed to get login, chat, inventory, and a few other features working. I provided it tools like Ghidra and x64dbg and pywinauto. Progress is slow but incremental. Each day new bits work that didn't before.

roncesvalles 6mo ago

So that you can have a fresh context for every little thing. These harnesses basically marry LLMs with deterministic software logic. The harness programmatically generates the prompts and stores the output, step by step. You never want the LLM to do anything that deterministic software does better, because it inflates the context and is not guaranteed to be done accurately. This includes things like tracking progress, figuring out dependency ordering, etc.