5 ms·

I have to say I'm quite disappointed by his attitude against Palestine. RIP, but not with the victims. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/nov/22/israel-ham

I have to say I'm quite disappointed by his attitude against Palestine. RIP, but not with the victims. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/nov/22/israel-hamas-war-opens-up-german-debate-over-meaning-of-never-again https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/nov/22/israel-hamas-w...

nwellnhof 6mo ago
The majority of Germans is completely biased towards Zionism because of their history, so it's more of a cultural than a personal thing.
- submeta 6mo ago
  No we are not. 80% of us are against what Israel does in Palestine. But the Goverment and media will tell you otherwise. It's got nothing to do with our history. Konrad Adenauer--first chancellor--once said: "The power of the Jews even today, especially in America, should not be underestimated. And therefore I have very deliberately and very consciously — and that was always my opinion — put all my strength, the best I could, to bring about a reconciliation between the Jewish people and the German people." It was never about guilt, still is not. Germany has learned nothing from its past.
- throw310822 6mo ago
  This is well known, but isn't this exactly what you ask of a great thinker, to be able to transcend the biases of the culture and provide clarity and guidance? (Though of course at that age is hard to expect much from anyone).
- chmod775 6mo ago
  Berlin perspective: It really doesn't feel that way. Germany's official political stance is very much "pro-Israel" and somewhat intentionally deaf and blind towards what is happening in Palestine (though not completely). Public opinion and discourse is much more nuanced though.
submeta 6mo ago
Totally disappointing. But coming from Germany, no surprise. German intellectualls and media totally ignore the suffering in Palesine. And fully suppress any solidarity with Palestine. By defunding, by cancelling, by smear campaigns (look up how they--overnight--deligitimised Greta Thunberg), by basically not reporting about what's going on there. And if you are state employed, you can basically bet on it losing your job once you show soliarity with Palestine.
- 9864247888754 6mo ago
  [flagged]
- inglor_cz 6mo ago
  Europe also has a non-trivial problem with both Islamic terrorism and cultural clash between indigenous Europeans and newly settled Muslims. That reduces empathy towards other Muslims quite significantly.
  - submeta 6mo ago
    Why did muslims have to leave their countries? The "cultural clash" didn't appear out of thin air. Muslims are in Europe in large numbers because of wars that Europe and the West either started, fueled, or failed to prevent. To name a few conflicts incited by the West: The Nakba in 1948 displaced 750,000 Palestinians and created a refugee population that still hasn't been resolved. The Soviet-Afghan War displaced 6M+ people. The US invaded Iraq in 2003, directly creating the vacuum that spawned ISIS. NATO bombed Libya into a failed state. The US and Israel spent years destabilizing Syria long before the civil war made it the worst refugee crisis since WWII. Europe's closest allies armed all sides of Yemen's proxy war. => Every single wave of Muslim refugees into Europe traces back to a conflict the West had its hands in. Blaming Muslims for being here while ignoring why they had to leave is not a serious position. And now Iran, a country with 90+m population. And noone stops US/israel. What do you think will cause the next flow of refugees?
    - inglor_cz 6mo ago

nwellnhof 6mo ago

The majority of Germans is completely biased towards Zionism because of their history, so it's more of a cultural than a personal thing.

submeta 6mo ago
No we are not. 80% of us are against what Israel does in Palestine. But the Goverment and media will tell you otherwise. It's got nothing to do with our history. Konrad Adenauer--first chancellor--once said: "The power of the Jews even today, especially in America, should not be underestimated. And therefore I have very deliberately and very consciously — and that was always my opinion — put all my strength, the best I could, to bring about a reconciliation between the Jewish people and the German people." It was never about guilt, still is not. Germany has learned nothing from its past.
throw310822 6mo ago
This is well known, but isn't this exactly what you ask of a great thinker, to be able to transcend the biases of the culture and provide clarity and guidance? (Though of course at that age is hard to expect much from anyone).
chmod775 6mo ago
Berlin perspective: It really doesn't feel that way. Germany's official political stance is very much "pro-Israel" and somewhat intentionally deaf and blind towards what is happening in Palestine (though not completely). Public opinion and discourse is much more nuanced though.

submeta 6mo ago

Totally disappointing. But coming from Germany, no surprise. German intellectualls and media totally ignore the suffering in Palesine. And fully suppress any solidarity with Palestine. By defunding, by cancelling, by smear campaigns (look up how they--overnight--deligitimised Greta Thunberg), by basically not reporting about what's going on there. And if you are state employed, you can basically bet on it losing your job once you show soliarity with Palestine.

9864247888754 6mo ago
[flagged]
inglor_cz 6mo ago
Europe also has a non-trivial problem with both Islamic terrorism and cultural clash between indigenous Europeans and newly settled Muslims. That reduces empathy towards other Muslims quite significantly.
- submeta 6mo ago
  Why did muslims have to leave their countries? The "cultural clash" didn't appear out of thin air. Muslims are in Europe in large numbers because of wars that Europe and the West either started, fueled, or failed to prevent. To name a few conflicts incited by the West: The Nakba in 1948 displaced 750,000 Palestinians and created a refugee population that still hasn't been resolved. The Soviet-Afghan War displaced 6M+ people. The US invaded Iraq in 2003, directly creating the vacuum that spawned ISIS. NATO bombed Libya into a failed state. The US and Israel spent years destabilizing Syria long before the civil war made it the worst refugee crisis since WWII. Europe's closest allies armed all sides of Yemen's proxy war. => Every single wave of Muslim refugees into Europe traces back to a conflict the West had its hands in. Blaming Muslims for being here while ignoring why they had to leave is not a serious position. And now Iran, a country with 90+m population. And noone stops US/israel. What do you think will cause the next flow of refugees?
  - inglor_cz 6mo ago