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Taiwan and perhaps other Asian countries that successfully make stuff don't expose their industries to this, the government sets a fixed energy price for them r

Taiwan and perhaps other Asian countries that successfully make stuff don't expose their industries to this, the government sets a fixed energy price for them rather than leaving them at the whim of speculators.

capitol_ 6mo ago
Typically markets are good at optimizing everything that is priced into the market. Long term price stability is currently not something that is optimized for. One way to solve it is of course abandoning the ide of a market economy for power. Another is to let those industries that need price stability buy that on the futures market.
pjc50 6mo ago
Sure, but then the taxpayer has to pay for it anyway. https://news.tvbs.com.tw/english/2690584 https://news.tvbs.com.tw/english/2690584 "TAIPEI (TVBS News) — Premier Cho Jung-tai (卓榮泰) announced on Tuesday (Nov. 19 2024) plans to subsidize Taiwan Power Company (台灣電力公司) with NT$100 billion to address rising international fuel costs and stabilize prices" => over $3bn USD! This is not a small amount of money.
alastairr 6mo ago
You are right that Taiwan doesn't. But it has consequences, Taipower is forced to undercharge against market prices, but is backstopped by the government. At the end of the day, it's a global market, and if you want it 'cheap' someone has to pick up the tab. Either it's taxpayers now, taxpayers in the future or consumers now. https://www.taipeitimes.com/News/front/archives/2025/03/23/2003833896 https://www.taipeitimes.com/News/front/archives/2025/03/23/2...
owenversteeg 6mo ago
I agree that the government should ensure low energy prices for industry, but Taiwan is a remarkably poor example. Taiwan's energy policy is, as far as I know, the most pants-on-head stupid of any country in the world. As anyone knows, they are a small island at constant risk of a sea blockade and yet rely on sea imports for 98% of their energy. Not only that, but they _had_ more domestic production (nuclear) that they have been phasing out. Writing giant checks to import yet more oil by sea instead of boosting domestic production is a terrible idea for so many reasons.
- Qwertious 6mo ago
  Nuclear also relies on sea imports - nuclear fuel still needs to be imported, unless Taiwan has a uranium mine on the island. So nuclear doesn't solve the problem, it just kicks the can down the road.
  - pydry 6mo ago
    Easier to stockpile uranium than oil or gas though.

capitol_ 6mo ago

Typically markets are good at optimizing everything that is priced into the market. Long term price stability is currently not something that is optimized for. One way to solve it is of course abandoning the ide of a market economy for power. Another is to let those industries that need price stability buy that on the futures market.

pjc50 6mo ago

Sure, but then the taxpayer has to pay for it anyway. https://news.tvbs.com.tw/english/2690584 https://news.tvbs.com.tw/english/2690584 "TAIPEI (TVBS News) — Premier Cho Jung-tai (卓榮泰) announced on Tuesday (Nov. 19 2024) plans to subsidize Taiwan Power Company (台灣電力公司) with NT$100 billion to address rising international fuel costs and stabilize prices" => over $3bn USD! This is not a small amount of money.

alastairr 6mo ago

You are right that Taiwan doesn't. But it has consequences, Taipower is forced to undercharge against market prices, but is backstopped by the government. At the end of the day, it's a global market, and if you want it 'cheap' someone has to pick up the tab. Either it's taxpayers now, taxpayers in the future or consumers now. https://www.taipeitimes.com/News/front/archives/2025/03/23/2003833896 https://www.taipeitimes.com/News/front/archives/2025/03/23/2...

owenversteeg 6mo ago

I agree that the government should ensure low energy prices for industry, but Taiwan is a remarkably poor example. Taiwan's energy policy is, as far as I know, the most pants-on-head stupid of any country in the world. As anyone knows, they are a small island at constant risk of a sea blockade and yet rely on sea imports for 98% of their energy. Not only that, but they _had_ more domestic production (nuclear) that they have been phasing out. Writing giant checks to import yet more oil by sea instead of boosting domestic production is a terrible idea for so many reasons.

Qwertious 6mo ago
Nuclear also relies on sea imports - nuclear fuel still needs to be imported, unless Taiwan has a uranium mine on the island. So nuclear doesn't solve the problem, it just kicks the can down the road.
- pydry 6mo ago
  Easier to stockpile uranium than oil or gas though.